R16 water pump bleed nipple.
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Thread: R16 water pump bleed nipple.

  1. #1
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Default R16 water pump bleed nipple.

    Hi guys,

    I've been assisting someone in QLD that is sorting an R16 to put on the road for his mum.

    He's come up against a problem with the water pump bleed nipple that won't close, after replacing the pump with a new unit, and borrowing the nipple from the old.


    2019-05-08 (1).jpg

    Could it be that the nipple for the new pump require a different bleeder?


    2019-05-08 (2).jpg

    I suggested to him that it could be bottoming out on some grime, and not seating properly, but it looks pretty clean to me.

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    Thanks,

    David.
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    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hi,
    Maybe the new unit doesn't even have a seat for the bleeder?
    I understand that originality may be of importance, but a short bolt with teflon tape would probably seal it, though I imagine he realises that anyway.

    Andy
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    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972Ren View Post
    Hi,
    Maybe the new unit doesn't even have a seat for the bleeder?
    I understand that originality may be of importance, but a short bolt with teflon tape would probably seal it, though I imagine he realises that anyway.

    Andy
    Yes I forgot to mention I told him the same thing, replace with a bolt the same thread.
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    Does the bottom taper (angled bit) look sound? You could mount it in a drill and use abrasive paper on a small wooden block to carefully restore the taper, without removing too much material.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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    I fitted a water pump to an r16 just yesterday that had a bolt in it and no provisions for a bleed nipple to seal.
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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Latest Water pumps have no seat. And the thread is real hard to find. I have tapped a 7/16 fine, as it is just bigger, and a short bolt. M12 too big I feel for the pump body.

    Ray
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    Ray geckoeng

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    Thanks ray, angru.

    Good to know.

    He's gone looking for bolts at his mates place, but it's interesting its a weird thread.

    I'll pass on the advice.
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    COL
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    I think these bleed screw threads are 1/8 BSP, but happy to be corrected, so the best place for a replacement maybe a plumbing supplies
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    Regards Col

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    Both my metric tap and die sets come with a 1/8th BSP tap and die. Some of these older Renaults used BSP threads for sump and engine plugs as well as brake line fittings. Mentioned this once when in France and they said that earlier all pipe threads in France were BSP. Not sure about these days. My hardware has all pipe fittings marked with their metric equivalent size but they are still imperial BSP threads. I had to clean up my Dauphine Gordine gearbox drain plug hole and found that it was a BSP taper thread.
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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    From memory it is M10x1, impossible to find bolt for, hence UNF. Looks good with nickle plated cap head and fibre washer.

    Ray
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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by geckoeng View Post
    From memory it is M10x1, impossible to find bolt for, hence UNF. Looks good with nickle plated cap head and fibre washer.

    Ray
    Close Ray but not quite.

    The nipple thread measures 9.6mm Dia and a 1mm ptch thread gauge does not quite seat properly as the 1/8" bsp IS 28 TPI

    https://www.valvesonline.com.au/references/threads/
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    Regards Col

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    Strange that a French car has a British Standard thread.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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    Some of the emission control pipes on R20 or Fugeo, cannot remember which, are also BSP threads.

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    Sacre bleu!


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    bleed screw threads are 1/8 BSP
    Bleed screws & pipes with nipples & flared ends [anywhere on any brand vehicle] do not normally have tapered threads & rely totally on the tapered end or pipe seating on the 'base' not a BSP or NPT thread binding/sealing when tightening.

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artificer View Post
    Bleed screws & pipes with nipples & flared ends [anywhere on any brand vehicle] do not normally have tapered threads & rely totally on the tapered end or pipe seating on the 'base' not a BSP or NPT thread binding/sealing when tightening.
    Not all BSP threads are tapered.

    https://www.ralstoninst.com/news/sto...and-bspt-seals
    Regards Col

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    Originally Posted by Artificer
    Bleed screws & pipes with nipples & flared ends [anywhere on any brand vehicle] do not normally have tapered threads & rely totally on the tapered end or pipe seating on the 'base' not a BSP or NPT thread binding/sealing when tightening.

    Not all BSP threads are tapered. The point 99+% of BSP are, is just a fact of life.

    The water pump bleeder is definitely not BSP, NPT or gas or a tapered thread.
    It is a M10 x 1 parallel thread as one would expect on a French vehicle.

    So a full threaded bolt M10 x 1 x 15mm will work with an annealed copper crush washer between the bolt head & smoothed off water pump body.

    The bleeder nipple on my bench measures thread OD 9.92mm.

    Like in some brake applications 3/8" NF thread will screw in although loose & will damage the thread in the pump [or a metric brake wheel cylinder or caliper will strip] if one tries to use/tighten.
    Last edited by Artificer; 12th May 2019 at 11:32 AM.

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artificer View Post
    Originally Posted by Artificer
    Bleed screws & pipes with nipples & flared ends [anywhere on any brand vehicle] do not normally have tapered threads & rely totally on the tapered end or pipe seating on the 'base' not a BSP or NPT thread binding/sealing when tightening.

    Not all BSP threads are tapered. The point 99+% of BSP are, is just a fact of life.

    The water pump bleeder is definitely not BSP, NPT or gas or a tapered thread.
    It is a M10 x 1 parallel thread as one would expect on a French vehicle.

    So a full threaded bolt M10 x 1 x 15mm will work with an annealed copper crush washer between the bolt head & smoothed off water pump body.

    The bleeder nipple on my bench measures thread OD 9.92mm.

    Like in some brake applications 3/8" NF thread will screw in although loose & will damage the thread in the pump [or a metric brake wheel cylinder or caliper will strip] if one tries to use/tighten.
    The threads are very similar but not the same, check with thread gauges and you will see.
    Regards Col

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    Have done all that & M10 x 1 plug tap goes straight through the pump's thread without removing any material. So I would be happy fitting an M10 x 1 full thread bolt with copper washer, cap screw or similar with liquid teflon sealant & the job's done.

  20. #20
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    wow we have conflicting views.. very interesting..

    When I was in Melbourne I found a nuts and bolts place that was very good at identifying threads just taking the part to them.

    Maybe we have a case of new vs old parts now?
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  21. #21
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    After 18 posts, make sure you bleed the system
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    Should be easy to make up an authentic looking brass barrel with a central screw in tapered end, to bottom into a similar taper to shut off the release of air, better to make it like a short plug with only a few turns in the thread from open to shut. The outer barrel thread could be liquid thread sealed permanently or even cold soldered in place if safe to do so.

    Ken
    Last edited by Kenfuego; 12th May 2019 at 05:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Strange that a French car has a British Standard thread.
    No not strange but apparently normal in France in the 1950's and 60's for pipes. Just like us now, I guess, they were labeled 19 mm for 3/4 inch even though they are still imperial threads. Although some French manuals do list them as imperial sizes.

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    I checked up on my service notes and in 1976 model year all types of Renault at various times changed to 10mm from 3/8 imperial brake fittings. The way to tell the difference, the imperial fittings were fitted to flared copper pipes, where as the 10mm fittings were fitted to either copper or steel pipes with a knob style end. (That is with the flare turned in wards at the end.) They are not inter changeable the correct replacement type must be used on the equivalent part.

  25. #25
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    The definitive answer for a R16

    https://www.r16site.com/tips/Bleeding.htm

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