Oil leak, alignment and dealers!
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Thread: Oil leak, alignment and dealers!

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Oil leak, alignment and dealers!

    Hi all,

    Sorry for bothering with probably some stupid questions, but the bunch here on Aussie Frogs seems to be the nicest and most knowledgeable.

    My first Frenchy was a '13 Pug 208, which I loved but the timing chain was starting to rattle and a few other major issues, with no warranty so sold it. And since I bought that, I fell hard for French cars. We purchased a new Megane GT Line last year and a new Clio Zen this year. Both with EDC trans. My questions are as follows:

    Megane developed an oil leak, which I could smell each time we drove the car but wasn't large enough to pool on the ground. Turns out it's the timing case gasket seal. No biggy I don't think, as I monitored the oil over the last year and added 1 litre total. These small displacement direct injected turbos have a habit of drinking some oil, so i wasn't concerned. We brought the Megane to McCarrols Renault, and while performing the service they found the front wheels out of alignment. Assuming it's the camber as both tyres are worn to below min specs on the insides. The advisor stated it could have come from the factory like that. It has but 11500kms. Is this something that is known with French cars? As I've rarely had to perform an alignment on the couple dozen cars I've owned before. Only if I've hit a kerb at speed et cetera, something that was my fault. This wasn't the case here. Should I fight to have this under warranty or eat it and buy two new tyres? The Primacy tyres on the rest of the tread have about 80% wear left. I just find it hard to swallow that that much of an alignment issue was not from before we bought the car. So that's number 1.

    Number 2 with McCarrols their service is left wanting. Quite rude and arrogant and literally weeks to get a booking to replace the timing case gasket. The have one loaner car that oddly is shared with Jeep, Fiat and Alfa. Where I was under the assumption that Renault Australia had stated that dealers would have loaner cars for Renault owners. So would anyone recommend another Renault dealer in Sydney that they've had good luck with? I've read that Castle Hill Renault Service Centre just deals with just Renault's, so seems they have much more availability to get things fixed and appointments to get your car in. Was able to get a booking for this coming week with no issues. Whereas McCarrols has the parts but nothing available until July, and August if we wanted a loaner car. I've had a great mechanic I really trust, but for warranty issues, that's not really an option. And experience has taught me while under warranty, if you keep service at the dealer, they are a bit more likely to be helpful when issues are on the line of warranty or wear and tear, or just after expiry of warranty.

    And third and lastly, they also did a software upgrade which now coincidently has coincided with a "hill assist" warning light fault and the volume of the infotainment is stuck, cannot adjust at all, either by the dash buttons or on the wheel stalk. Has anyone else had this issue after a software upgrade?

    Sorry for the length, but you guys have always been the best to offer advice. And as I've only owned French cars since I moved to Australia, I have little experience in all the quirks and issues that make them so unique.

    Thanks in advance
    J

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I have had the most puzzling experience with alignment. The car was a 405Mi16 and it didn't have a major problem with uneven wear (tires showed a little bit of feathering of the tread on the outside) but I thought I would see if I could improve it so I sought some advice. Long story short I have heard the most idiotic diagnosis (including one place where they told me "the knuckle is bent". The "knuckle" (hub carrier) is a massive piece of cast steel, which I don't think would bend if you wrapped it around a tree. Break, maybe. Bend, I don't think so. In the end I decided to measure the angles myself and made a little nice rig with laser pointers and found the alignment was within spec and I left good enough alone. Car tracked straight as an arrow, by the way.

    That would be my suggestion to you as well. Look up how to do it on the web, read a little bit and measure things on your own. You will most likely do a better job than a servo that can't be ****ed to book you in. Why would you want to go there anyway? Warranty or not.

    With the oil leak I would try to have it fixed under warranty, sounds like you can wait a bit until you get a booking with the new place. If that turns out to be too difficult I would give them the arse and do it myself.

    The software update should be fixed by whoever stuffed up. See what they say? Where did you buy the car from? Can't go back there?

    As for Renault dealers, in WA we only have one and it's pathetic. We walked in the dealership money in hand to buy a new car they had right there and their service was so dismal, my wife just walked out. We left and never went back.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    At 25,000 my Latitude also wore tyres on the inside, badly, while there was still a lot of tread left. The ubeaut computer alinement machine at local tyre shop had the measurements for Latitude in its software. So it said the alinement was out by 4 mm on all 4 wheels. Now at 80,000 haven't had the tyre insides wear since so must be a factory alinement problem at Samsung too.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    At 25,000 my Latitude also wore tyres on the inside, badly, while there was still a lot of tread left. The ubeaut computer alinement machine at local tyre shop had the measurements for Latitude in its software. So it said the alinement was out by 4 mm on all 4 wheels. Now at 80,000 haven't had the tyre insides wear since so must be a factory alinement problem at Samsung too.
    Yeah the car tracks perfectly straight as well, but the insides of the front two tyres have virtually zero tread left, while the other 3/4 of the tyres have about 85% life left, but because they are so badly worn, due to it seems the camber is off, that they need replacing. I won't have the dealer do this a s they could misalign it purposefully and have me back to do it again. But will fight with Renault to have the alignment corrected under warranty and two new tyres covered, as 11k KMs is absolutely unacceptable for the wear pattern exhibited. Had the whole tyre been fully worn that's one thing, but if this car came misaligned from the factory, it sure as heck wasn't fit for it's purpose. So as long as they admit, as the service advisor did that it may have come from France that way, and pay for the two new tyres, I'll let them align it if covered and then bring it to my trusted mechanic to align it again, as I trust him with any of my cars, and to do it properly. I'd rather be out 50 or 60 dollars to make sure it's done right. But the hard part is getting Renault to officially admit it's a warranty issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I have had the most puzzling experience with alignment. The car was a 405Mi16 and it didn't have a major problem with uneven wear (tires showed a little bit of feathering of the tread on the outside) but I thought I would see if I could improve it so I sought some advice. Long story short I have heard the most idiotic diagnosis (including one place where they told me "the knuckle is bent". The "knuckle" (hub carrier) is a massive piece of cast steel, which I don't think would bend if you wrapped it around a tree. Break, maybe. Bend, I don't think so. In the end I decided to measure the angles myself and made a little nice rig with laser pointers and found the alignment was within spec and I left good enough alone. Car tracked straight as an arrow, by the way.

    That would be my suggestion to you as well. Look up how to do it on the web, read a little bit and measure things on your own. You will most likely do a better job than a servo that can't be ****ed to book you in. Why would you want to go there anyway? Warranty or not.

    With the oil leak I would try to have it fixed under warranty, sounds like you can wait a bit until you get a booking with the new place. If that turns out to be too difficult I would give them the arse and do it myself.

    The software update should be fixed by whoever stuffed up. See what they say? Where did you buy the car from? Can't go back there?

    As for Renault dealers, in WA we only have one and it's pathetic. We walked in the dealership money in hand to buy a new car they had right there and their service was so dismal, my wife just walked out. We left and never went back.
    Yeah oil leak has been scheduled with another dealer as they actually can get the car in this year....unlike McCarrols. And will try and get Renault to cover the alignment and tyres as our service advisor even stated it may have come from the factory misaligned, as both front tyres are worn completely on the inside edges, equally. Rest of the tyres are at least 85% left. So this has to be a stuff up from new. The only reason I would bring it to a dealer during the warranty, is that in my own experiences, they seem to be more willing to "warranty" something if you have a relationship with them. Not always the case but sometimes. As it's capped price during the warranty, not too much of an issue. I won't ever bring it to them for normal wear items, brake pads, tyres et cetera. Just the things like warranty issues, and things that I cannot actually do, like replacing LED headlights and the like. For those either my mechanic or last resort dealer. But much happier to do everything myself after warranty is up, if we keep the car that long. As much as I'd love to, thus far, and now a hill assist error, not sure how they hold up after the warranty. Have been talking to the partner about going the classic route. Granted more maintenance, and you won't have all the niceties of modern cars, heated seats, glass roofs, push button start and on and on. But you have a car that's much easier to work, more reliable (IMO) and better looking. Only concern would be safety, as modern cars truly are safer, and have a near fatal accident back in 2002, a brand new Acura (in Canada) saved my life. Had I been in something else, I wouldn't be writing this. But I drive maybe 2k KMs a year, partner about 11 or so. So we shall see how the Megane fairs this next year. Touch wood. The Clio is now 5 months old and nothing wrong, thankfully. Although same engine, so the timing case oil leak is a known issue, so will watch the oil level carefully. Although there was really no indication of a leak, just that it was using oil. The only way I knew was I could smell burnt oil in the cabin most times we'd drive it. And the level dropping on the dipstick. I first attributed it to the typical oil consumption of these modern GDI turbo engines. Although still in my mind, I don't think they should use ANY oil regardless. But it was the smell that tipped me off that something was wrong that wasn't just an engine burning oil. It was leaking slowly and getting hot enough to burn off, causing the smell. Still great little cars though, they driving experience is amazing. We drove the new Alpine A110 a few weeks ago as I was thinking of getting one for my 40th, simply amazing little machine. So light and just that French flair. Hard to go back to a normal boring car after you've owned one.

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  6. #6
    bob
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    Default Latitude alignment....

    G'day,

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    At 25,000 my Latitude also wore tyres on the inside, badly, while there was still a lot of tread left. The ubeaut computer alinement machine at local tyre shop had the measurements for Latitude in its software. So it said the alinement was out by 4 mm on all 4 wheels. Now at 80,000 haven't had the tyre insides wear since so must be a factory alinement problem at Samsung too.
    our 2014 Latitude was also pinged for an alignment at the last service due to inside tyre wear, we were ready to get new Conti's so not so much a big deal with the rubber. Beaui's, who did the tyres, said that it was 8mm out !!

    The dealer that noted the fault [Werribee] wasn't the one that sold it [Ballarat], hmmmm, food for thought there. Our experience with the Ballarat dealership has been woeful, they have it too easy, no competition. The Werribee guy is helpful and no trouble booking in - competition from Geelong and Melbourne ?

    Even with the car being ex rental, you would think that such an alignment problem would have been found before now ? Aaah for the old days, alignments in the driveway with bits of string and plumb bobs.....

    The new tyres are real nice....

    cheers,
    Bob
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    Hi JoshyJ
    Sorry about your dealer problems. I just do not go there!I will probably get a final service before the warranty finishes.
    As far as the alignment goes, and note that I have not seen the car etc, it is likely that it is not the camber but the toe-in. This is always the killer for inner tire wear(or outer) and can make the rubber dissappear. Any quick look at the tires should have alerted a service person to this. Indeed the fact that he said it was the camber probably shows the person reporting it is incompetent.
    I would go to the NRMA if a member, or consumer affairs to make a complaint about the tire wear, after sending an official written complaint to Renault direct.
    Jaahn
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    The car was driven over a set of slip plates, a measuring device built into the floor. See the report. The most likely adjustment needed to correct this is toe. This is a simple matter; the steering rack has adjustable length arms near each front wheel.

    Toyota workshops are required to install the plates. Many other dealers do as well, so that every car coming in gets a quick assessment of alignment.
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    1000+ Posts dmccurtayne's Avatar
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    Default Oil leak, alignment and dealers!

    That safety stop system is a crock is also used to brake test for rego I wouldnít go on anything it puts out you can run the same car over it 5 times and get 5 different results the only thing it is good for is to extract 20-40 dollars from customers


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    Schlitz, there are three Renault dealers in Perth.

    Joshy, you need to find a good suspension specialist. Dealers and tyre places never seem to get it right, unless you have an unusually good dealer mechanic. I was once told by a tyre vendor my car needed to go on a chassis jig and have the chassis straightened. I took it to a suspension guy who aligned it in about 30 mins and I said so what's the damage and he looked surprised and said 'what?' and I told him the story and he laughed. It was spot on after that.


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    And, for Perth, Magic Renault opened their upgraded showroom in Melville last week. My impressions of their attitude are pretty good, very much an enthusiastically family-owned business. I've had a good reception at the one in Osborne Park by turning up in the R8 or 4CV, but they do attract attention!

    The third? Can't comment - didn't even realise that there was a third one.

    Cheers
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    But the OP's in Sydney, and has been to a very large multi-marque shop on the North Shore that used to attract remarks here when it sold Citroen (they swapped Cit for Renault).

    Any advice from Sydney Renault owners?

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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    Any advice from Sydney Renault owners?
    If you mean where to take it....Renault tech in Hornsby.

    Jo

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    Yeah Seasink, I was just correcting Mr Schlitz. John, the third is Wanneroo Renault in Wangara.


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    Of course, I'd forgotten the Deep North. Thanks Stuey.
    JohnW

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    There you go. My info is old, I admit, but it goes to show my interest for Renault dealers here has gone through the floor after my experience with them. And yes, it was Melville, back then the only one in the state.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi JoshyJ
    Sorry about your dealer problems. I just do not go there!I will probably get a final service before the warranty finishes.
    As far as the alignment goes, and note that I have not seen the car etc, it is likely that it is not the camber but the toe-in. This is always the killer for inner tire wear(or outer) and can make the rubber dissappear. Any quick look at the tires should have alerted a service person to this. Indeed the fact that he said it was the camber probably shows the person reporting it is incompetent.
    I would go to the NRMA if a member, or consumer affairs to make a complaint about the tire wear, after sending an official written complaint to Renault direct.
    Jaahn
    Agreed. Regardless of a computer report, the fact the tyres are visibly worn on the insides is an indication of excessive toe-out (the front wheels are aiming outwards at the front). 4mm toe-out (as shown on the report) will kill a pair of tyres quickly. The rear shows 3mm but I think that would be toe-in, and a bit of toe-in on the rear helps straight line stability.
    I think you will be lucky to get either alignment or tyre wear covered by warranty, as much can happen in 11000 kms, and you will probably find direct exclusion mentioned in the warranty document. However, I would be like you - knowing that it has been like it since new, but unable to prove it. Have a go, but otherwise get 2 new tyres (Bob Janes gave free toe-in adjustment with a pair of new tyres last time I bought some). Get it corrected, then regularly check depth of tread across the tyre face to monitor wear before it becomes obvious.
    Cheers.
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  18. #18
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fordman View Post
    Agreed. Regardless of a computer report, the fact the tyres are visibly worn on the insides is an indication of excessive toe-out (the front wheels are aiming outwards at the front). 4mm toe-out (as shown on the report) will kill a pair of tyres quickly. The rear shows 3mm but I think that would be toe-in, and a bit of toe-in on the rear helps straight line stability.
    I think you will be lucky to get either alignment or tyre wear covered by warranty, as much can happen in 11000 kms, and you will probably find direct exclusion mentioned in the warranty document. However, I would be like you - knowing that it has been like it since new, but unable to prove it. Have a go, but otherwise get 2 new tyres (Bob Janes gave free toe-in adjustment with a pair of new tyres last time I bought some). Get it corrected, then regularly check depth of tread across the tyre face to monitor wear before it becomes obvious.
    Cheers.
    Hi JoshyJ

    Get yourself a tread depth gauge, they are cheap and every 1000 Km check the tread depth.

    Here is a gauge you can buy for $5 and keep in the glove box.

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-pc...d-83a4a08a9f18
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    Regards Col

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  19. #19
    bob
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    G'day,

    but if they are like the similarly looking calipers, take out the battery, they die waiting for you....

    cheers,
    Bob

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    Interestingly my tyre man told me that cars with negative camber on the rear should have a small amount of toe in. His computer alingment machine gives rear toe for R10 as zero as does the workshop manual. He said up to 4 mm over all would be best as I have small amount of negative camber. Perhaps I should have asked why.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    Interestingly my tyre man told me that cars with negative camber on the rear should have a small amount of toe in. His computer alingment machine gives rear toe for R10 as zero as does the workshop manual. He said up to 4 mm over all would be best as I have small amount of negative camber. Perhaps I should have asked why.
    I'm staggered by these front tyre wear posts. I went straight out and checked the Scenics, showing all to be well!

    The R10 series can only have parallel rear wheels, hopefully pointing exactly forwards! I've always felt that the trailing arms are there to keep the whole power pack correctly aligned, wheels in the right direction and no bump steer. Your R10 seems good in that regard....

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Hi JoshyJ

    Get yourself a tread depth gauge, they are cheap and every 1000 Km check the tread depth.

    Here is a gauge you can buy for $5 and keep in the glove box.

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-pc...d-83a4a08a9f18
    Thanks mate for the advice, have ordered one now. Always kept a US penny in the glovebox to check wear, as you could tell by top of Lincolns head, but this little tool is much easier and less likely to be lost!
    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fordman View Post
    Agreed. Regardless of a computer report, the fact the tyres are visibly worn on the insides is an indication of excessive toe-out (the front wheels are aiming outwards at the front). 4mm toe-out (as shown on the report) will kill a pair of tyres quickly. The rear shows 3mm but I think that would be toe-in, and a bit of toe-in on the rear helps straight line stability.
    I think you will be lucky to get either alignment or tyre wear covered by warranty, as much can happen in 11000 kms, and you will probably find direct exclusion mentioned in the warranty document. However, I would be like you - knowing that it has been like it since new, but unable to prove it. Have a go, but otherwise get 2 new tyres (Bob Janes gave free toe-in adjustment with a pair of new tyres last time I bought some). Get it corrected, then regularly check depth of tread across the tyre face to monitor wear before it becomes obvious.
    Cheers.
    Yeah will try and get Renault to fix under warranty with tyres (doubtful but worth a try) as the SA stated it may have come from the factory as such. So here's hoping. If not will bring to my trusted mechanic and get him to fix the toe in and get two new tyres, but debating whether to replace with the Primacy 3s which wear so fast anyways or a pair with better tread wear rating. Just don't like having two different sets on the same car, but not sure if it will matter if they are similar in spec. Can get some Michelin Energy's for about 135 a tyre, mounted and balanced, or some Bridgestone Ecopia EP300s (which I had put in my Pug when I bought it and still had 90% left after about 15k KMs, were very quiet and stable tyres). But mixing, on the fence on this one. As if I lose the battle of warranty, just thinking more long term, as the rears are already about 50% worn as well. Definitely want the higher speed rating, as softer tyre walls I hate the feeling with them, it's like driving with tyres that flop over themselves.

    Any opinions on switching brands in front? And matching when the rears wear out?

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    Independently suspended driven wheels pull themselves forward against the car's rolling resistance when under way and toe in slightly more that the static setting due to suspension bush compliance.


    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I'm staggered by these front tyre wear posts. I went straight out and checked the Scenics, showing all to be well!

    The R10 series can only have parallel rear wheels, hopefully pointing exactly forwards! I've always felt that the trailing arms are there to keep the whole power pack correctly aligned, wheels in the right direction and no bump steer. Your R10 seems good in that regard....

    Cheers
    Last edited by Stuey; 9th May 2019 at 10:19 PM.


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    bob
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    G'day,

    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Hi JoshyJ

    Get yourself a tread depth gauge, they are cheap and every 1000 Km check the tread depth.

    Here is a gauge you can buy for $5 and keep in the glove box.

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-pc...d-83a4a08a9f18
    Interesting, ordered two of these fellas, or I thought I did. What turned up in the post was a bag of electrical connectors.....

    Went back to look at the order, sure enough, it comes up as electrical connectors.... weird.... Maybe that aliexpress is not as well organised as some other on-line emporiums.

    At that expended sum, it goes down to experience. Just a lesson to properly check the confirmation email for any on-line purchase !!

    cheers,
    Bob

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