Repairer for wiper motors etc
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Thread: Repairer for wiper motors etc

  1. #1
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    Default Repairer for wiper motors etc

    Hi all

    The wiper motor on the 4cv is refusing to function. Am going through all of the usual checks and am stripping and cleaning a spare, in the hope that it may be made to work, but have a sneaking suspicion that somebody competent may need to look at this one.

    Does anybody out there know sonebody who does this sort of work, ideally in Victoria? Am not especially hopeful, as fixing broken electrical things is not exactly the most viable business plan in these throw-away days, but theee May still be somebody out there.

    Does anybody have any ideas? Would be very grateful for any advice

    Andrew

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    What seems to be the problem?

    If all else fails, you might need to check the brushes are long enough and make good contact on the comm (slide easily in the carriers and have good spring tension behind them).

    The comm itself might need a light skim. If everything else is good and you do these two things and the motor is still dead, then it is dead. As in the windings themselves are dead (shorted or broken).

    You can rewind it, but this is the stuff of old chinese yoga masters. If anyone else is contracted in, it will be expensive as poison.

    My take on these problems is to get a similar sized modern motor and graft that in. If you're lucky you might find a rotor that slots straight in. Say from a Toyota or some such.

    If the magnets have lost their power, you really are better off grafting a new motor from a modern car in. I like the Camry motors, which are so strong they rock the whole car at full speed and are the same size as a R12 motor.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    COL
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    All it probably needs is dismantling and give it a good clean, check the brush length and renew if the brushes are to short. You have to clean up the commutator and undercut the segments. Some fresh oil for the bearings and some new grease for the gearbox and most likely it will run like it did when it was new 60 years ago.
    Kenfuego, driven, Sunroof and 1 others like this.
    Regards Col

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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    All it probably needs is dismantling and give it a good clean, check the brush length and renew if the brushes are to short. You have to clean up the commutator and undercut the segments. Some fresh oil for the bearings and some new grease for the gearbox and most likely it will run like it did when it was new 60 years ago.
    That has been my experience also Col, a good clean inspection, brushes and commutator. grease and oil where required
    and they go on forever. Wish my body ran as well as it did 60 years ago!
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    If all the above doesn't get it going i can ask our local auto electrician where to get it rewound etc. I know it's in Dandanong or nearby. I've had a powersteering pump motor rewound and a new commutator put on a few years ago. It cost about $120. Hopefully he is still in business!
    "The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge"
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    If your spare works, I'd clean and lubricate everything and swap them over. It sounds easy if you say it quickly....

    Mine hasn't been touched from new in 1950 and is fine. At least it was OK last time.... So if the spare works OK, it might see you out....

    I put a few drops of light oil on the spindles every year.

    I imagine there are a few working examples lurking in 4CV Register collections too.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    Many thanks guys, som ereally good advice here

    My instinct is that it has either an electrical gremlin in the car wiring/earthing or has become gummed up with solid grease. This weekend is partly dedicated to sorting it ( after doing the fuel filler hose and tank sender )

    I had not clocked that it was worth trying an armature swap from a spare, so these tips have been very useful. One good thing about this site is that the responders are all from the deep end of the engineering gene pool. I am still paddling in the shallow end. I do have one identical spare SEV marchal 6V wiper and another non identical one ( ?203 or 403 Peugeot, despite being sold to me on eBay as 4CV ), so may have a suitable array of innards available.

    The more radical grafting ideas ( Toyota etc ) while excellent are not available to me until I run up the white flag and convert to 12V. Am still being purist/stubborm/stupid and trying to stay with 6V

    MAny thanks to all

    Andrew
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    6V is fine, handled properly. That means good earths and headlamp relays for QI bulbs, the latter not least to protect the Avercod rotary switch.
    JohnW

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    In middle of this project as we speak - earthing blocks front and rear, large cables and lotsa relays.

    Just have to find suitably artistic ways to hide the relays

    Best Wishes

    Andrew

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    6V is fine, handled properly. That means good earths and headlamp relays for QI bulbs, the latter not least to protect the Avercod rotary switch.
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  10. #10
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    Progress report

    Wiper in car has power to motor and connection of massive earth lead to negative terminal of battery does not restore function

    It was working quite well recently, so is unlikely to be bunged solid with inspissated grease

    It has a switch on the motor, which used to work - reach under dash, turn switch on , wiper works.

    Switch feels funny - when manipulated it feels as if nothing is being moved

    Am is process of dissection of spare. As suggested by all, it is impacted with inspissated grease and wants to go when connected up but can't. ( so armature, field windings etc are OK ) Currently degreasing and re-lubricating.

    What I can't work out is how the switching arrangement on it works - it is an SEV Marchal and has a rotary switch on the back panel. The switch has no electrical connections and simply moves a peg along an arc of about 90 deg. My visuo-spatial capacities are limited, but to me on re-imagining how it must all look once put together the only credible way that this could function as an on/off switch is by moving one commutator brush off the commutator - the spring arrangement would allow this.

    This seems an unconventional way to switch something on and off, but we are dealing with French cars here,so anything is possible and I could see how it could be a brutally simple and very effective way to achieve the desired object, but it does seem unconventional and is making my brain hurt.

    The intention is to end up with it wired permanently on with a dashboard switch and relay to make it all work, but it seems sensible to go back to "as designed" before playing too much

    Am I missing anything here?

    Would be grateful for any advice before I tear it all apart and instal spare wiper motor.

    Best Wishes

    Andrew

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    COL
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    Hi Andrew

    Not quite sure what you mean from your description, I'm not familiar with the 4CV wiper motor.

    Could you post some pics of what you have.

    The switch is also probably got dried up lubricant in it, so also dismantling it and washing out of old lubricant and replacing it with some Vaseline should restore it to new and give the switch a positive feel.
    Regards Col

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Watkins View Post
    Progress report

    Wiper in car has power to motor and connection of massive earth lead to negative terminal of battery does not restore function

    It was working quite well recently, so is unlikely to be bunged solid with inspissated grease

    It has a switch on the motor, which used to work - reach under dash, turn switch on , wiper works.

    Switch feels funny - when manipulated it feels as if nothing is being moved

    Am is process of dissection of spare. As suggested by all, it is impacted with inspissated grease and wants to go when connected up but can't. ( so armature, field windings etc are OK ) Currently degreasing and re-lubricating.

    What I can't work out is how the switching arrangement on it works - it is an SEV Marchal and has a rotary switch on the back panel. The switch has no electrical connections and simply moves a peg along an arc of about 90 deg. My visuo-spatial capacities are limited, but to me on re-imagining how it must all look once put together the only credible way that this could function as an on/off switch is by moving one commutator brush off the commutator - the spring arrangement would allow this.

    This seems an unconventional way to switch something on and off, but we are dealing with French cars here,so anything is possible and I could see how it could be a brutally simple and very effective way to achieve the desired object, but it does seem unconventional and is making my brain hurt.

    The intention is to end up with it wired permanently on with a dashboard switch and relay to make it all work, but it seems sensible to go back to "as designed" before playing too much

    Am I missing anything here?

    Would be grateful for any advice before I tear it all apart and instal spare wiper motor.

    Best Wishes

    Andrew
    That's it. The peg lifts one brush off the commutator. Dead simple.

    Cheers
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    JohnW

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    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
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    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  13. #13
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    So I'm not just a pretty face

    Typical brutal French practicality

    Many thanks.

    Permanent wiring to an external switch and relay would seem to be a kinder long term arrangement ( although existing one seems to have been good for 60 odd years ). There is a spare switch on the top of the dash which should do nicely.

    Thanks again

    Andrew

  14. #14
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    Exactly Andrew!

    They were economy cars and that brush lifting switch is a very economical approach.

    Yes, I fitted a dashboard switch years ago. I doubt a relay there is worth the trouble.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
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    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

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    I know an old geezer in Belgium who can make alternators, starters and even wiper motors out of shit.
    However, that won't help you.
    You may want to take the motor out and bench test it. They aren't exactly rocket science and there are countless instructional vids out there how to examine an electric motor. In my humble experience, it's usually a contaminated commutator where the brushes run. If you clean this off, they usually are working again. I don't believe in solidified grease, since the inherent torque of an electric motor even at low voltage would easily break this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Austria Wild View Post
    I know an old geezer in Belgium who can make alternators, starters and even wiper motors out of shit.
    However, that won't help you.
    You may want to take the motor out and bench test it. They aren't exactly rocket science and there are countless instructional vids out there how to examine an electric motor. In my humble experience, it's usually a contaminated commutator where the brushes run. If you clean this off, they usually are working again. I don't believe in solidified grease, since the inherent torque of an electric motor even at low voltage would easily break this.
    Good you've joined us! Welcome..... My wiper grease is dated December 1950 and all sweet. So far.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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    They don't make grease like they used to.

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    General clean and tart-up has now produced two going 6V wiper motors, as predicted by the sages.

    One is 4CV original, one is probably Peugeot 203 or 403 ( bigger ) Am having evil thoughts about this one as it will have more grunt, but would need re-engineering of mounts etc and I suspect that Mr Renault was probably a better engineer than I'll ever be, so may stick with original for now.

    Any suggestions as to grease for re-packing? Anything exotic ( silicone etc ) or just good old axle grease?

    Thanks to all for the help and advice

    Andrew

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    Depending on how early the model there are ,a lot of simple economical features on a 4cv ,for instant ,who needs a locking petrol cap when you can lock both the engine compartment and the fuel at the same time ,a starter operated by a leaver between the seats ,a holland blind in front of the radiator operated by a wire just above the drivers head on the hood lining to control engine temp ,front passenger seat can be removed by a wing nut ,stored upside down behind the drivers seat ,so large object can be carried in the left hand side of the car , ie spare engine and gearbox. ,heater ,a flap you open under the back seat .but there were some advanced features also ,all wheel independent suspension, coil springs ,valves in alloy cylinder head ,and what about those spider wheels,pugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Watkins View Post
    General clean and tart-up has now produced two going 6V wiper motors, as predicted by the sages.

    One is 4CV original, one is probably Peugeot 203 or 403 ( bigger ) Am having evil thoughts about this one as it will have more grunt, but would need re-engineering of mounts etc and I suspect that Mr Renault was probably a better engineer than I'll ever be, so may stick with original for now.

    Any suggestions as to grease for re-packing? Anything exotic ( silicone etc ) or just good old axle grease?

    Thanks to all for the help and advice

    Andrew
    Andrew

    Re the grease, I have had a glass jar of grease I inherited from my fathers Garage that was said to be good for small working gearboxes in things like wiper motors, fishing reels and such like. Dad used to use it to replace grease in refurbished Ambidex fishing Reels (the Ordnance factory in Bendigo had a "cottage industry" in making new replacement parts including the brass gear cutting etc spare parts) I myself have only used it sparingly and occasionally. I just checked and it has a hand lettered label marked "Alvania Grease # 2 suitable for gearboxes of Woods fans".


    I did an internet search on that name and it seems it is a Shell product now marketed under a different name, probably just an axle and gear grease, but suitable enough for Dad to collect some for his purposes.


    This is the product safety etc specifications. Maybe this could suit your purposes - others who have used the grease might add if they think it is fit for your purpose.


    Over the many years in my garage it seems pretty stable with no oil separation while stored.

    https://www.smithandallan.com/docume...20%20%20S2.pdf

    Ken


    Good luck with the wiper project.

  21. #21
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    Thanks all. Have had a couple of recommendations for the Alvania grease

    Off to the shops

    Andrew

  22. #22
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    Please post an Alvania photo when you have it, or email of course....
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

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