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  1. #76
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    https://europe.autonews.com/automake...efense-lawyers


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    If not already considered the case, "the gloves are certainly off" now..

    Things are going to get a little heated and more unfriendly soon.
    Cheers, Peter J
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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post
    If not already considered the case, "the gloves are certainly off" now..

    Things are going to get a little heated and more unfriendly soon.
    I'm wondering if the ECJ is just standing back as simply an observer or actually doing something discreetly.

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    It doesn't hurt to barrack for our boy Carlos, though it will be a hollow win, unless he is awarded heavy compensation at the end of the day. Isn't it good that we ended up NOT under Japanese rule and legal system, as some are now remembering with the anniversary of the bombing of Darwin in WWll. And we do know the Japanese printed the Australian invasion money they were to use in establishing their presence, thank goodness the USA helped out at that critical time, probably not as fast as some would demand, but to the Australian population at the time, a big relief.

    Imperfect as it may be our legal system gives even the Mr and Mrs average and poorer some hope of eventual redemption if protesting their innocence. Nod the head or get it cut off "metaphorically speaking" is a strange "justice" system even if it is a different culture, but apparently produces an outstanding rate of conviction if you can't afford to pay and get the "best" defence lawyers money can buy.


    Ken
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    At least the Japanese will compensate you if the police were wrong. I don't see much of that here, with bail refusal now normal.

    Japan did not have the ability to actually invade and hold Australia. That became clear after the war. The present japanese legal system is also as modified after the war, so we would not have been in line to experience it. Japan's beef was with the USA and China. We were only allies, whether we liked it or not.
    Last edited by seasink; 20th February 2019 at 04:57 PM.

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    Another?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    My next car will be European or S Korean.
    I wonít buy another Japanese car .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Another?
    Iíve had 73 Honda Civic, mid 80s Toyota Tarago (LCV), mid 90s N14 Nissan Pulsar and Mitsubishi Magna, and 02 Mazda MX5.
    None were ever dealer serviced, nothing ever failed and all retained excellent residuals


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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    At least the Japanese will compensate you if the police were wrong. I don't see much of that here, with bail refusal now normal. Japan did not have the ability to actually invade and hold Australia. That became clear after the war. The present japanese legal system is also as modified after the war, so we would not have been in line to experience it. Japan's beef was with the USA and China. We were only allies, whether we liked it or not.
    Correct, they hadn't even made a decision TO invade Oz. And they'd already outstretched their logistical capability.

    Correct, the US used Oz for convenience. We're a bigger aircraft carrier than Britain. Everyone likes to say the nice things but we should be a whole lot more realistic. That's not to say many Americans weren't pleased to help us and that we should not be an ally, albeit perhaps a more plain speaking one.

    Ditto Britain re Singapore and the "Far East", which simply could not be high priorities and we were not either.

    I'm very glad I'm not Carlos Ghosn.
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    At least the Japanese will compensate you if the police were wrong. I don't see much of that here, with bail refusal now normal.

    Japan did not have the ability to actually invade and hold Australia. That became clear after the war. The present japanese legal system is also as modified after the war, so we would not have been in line to experience it. Japan's beef was with the USA and China. We were only allies, whether we liked it or not.
    Actually compensation is regularly paid out to those that have a charge dismissed. Many years back it was rare to have compensation awarded as the test applied by the courts meant that compensation was not paid where the charge laid met the legal criterion of establishing a prima facie case i.e. one where a person could be legally convicted on the set out evidence alone, so where a legal defence was put up to rebut the prima facie case, no compensation was paid. The courts in their wisdom changed all that and now regularly on dismissal of any charge, the defence will apply for statutory compensation.


    The effect of those rulings and changes in the judicial law, means that Police are very reluctant to proceed on prima facie evidence alone and this quite a frustration to Mr and Mrs ordinary citizen who can be very aggrieved when someone in their view (being the victim) the guilty go scot free and police just shrug their shoulders that their hands are tied as their superior ranks won't authorise prosecution on a the brief of evidence submitted alone. Any thing where one alleges and the other disputes (He says I say, evidence) and there isn't clear culpable corroboration, doesn't get past first base.

    Couple that with the always present need for investigators to fully investigate and ensue that an innocent person is not charged when further investigation could reveal circumstances that confirm their innocence (even though they might think they are guilty!!), its not a bad judicial system unless someone deliberately sets out to conceal or corruptly interfere either deliberately or by inadvertent laziness fail to do a proper job that they are paid to do on behalf of society.


    I noted in last nights news report the Army historian paid tribute to the US for finally coming to our aid after months of Australian worry as to when the Japanese would invade, thought that was nice as he expressed the feeling of Australian troops and also the civilians that lived the experience. My Father in Law who served in 2/8th Battalion New Guinea, expressed the same feeling while speaking with a visiting American ex serviceman who served in the same general deployment in New Guinea in WWII. There are many first hand accounts that confirm similar on the spot observations.


    What the Japanese could or could not do after the fact, I leave that to the experts I guess, though I have read different in some accounts, history these days seems subject to some different interpretations the further you get away from the conflict. I bet John (JBN) could give us some great examples of both sides, the good , the bad and the indifferent, of that question.


    Me, I am reasonably happy not to have worked under the Japanese justice system or be subject to it . I do appreciate the rule of law in societies.

    Regards


    Ken
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    The personal arrangements made between the board and Carlos Ghosn would be to the mutual satisfaction of both I would have thought.
    Iím amazed that Ghosn knows enough about his own personal arrangements to not need the appropriate counsel to assist in explaining it, or, more pointedly the police know as much as necessary to drag him off his corporate aircraft and straight to solitary confinement.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    It doesn't hurt to barrack for our boy Carlos, though it will be a hollow win, unless he is awarded heavy compensation at the end of the day. Isn't it good that we ended up NOT under Japanese rule and legal system, as some are now remembering with the anniversary of the bombing of Darwin in WWll. And we do know the Japanese printed the Australian invasion money they were to use in establishing their presence, thank goodness the USA helped out at that critical time, probably not as fast as some would demand, but to the Australian population at the time, a big relief.

    Imperfect as it may be our legal system gives even the Mr and Mrs average and poorer some hope of eventual redemption if protesting their innocence. Nod the head or get it cut off "metaphorically speaking" is a strange "justice" system even if it is a different culture, but apparently produces an outstanding rate of conviction if you can't afford to pay and get the "best" defence lawyers money can buy.


    Ken
    Maybe, it's all hypothetical. Give it another 50 to 100 years and maybe we wish that the Japanese ran the country (given our politics, de-industrializing and fogging off assets)

    What is so great about the British Legal system Evidence is often limited by clever defense tactics, the judge can not ask investigative questions outside the brief of the case (possibly not the right legalese term).
    Police face shit just because they got some 'help' from a lawyer - who cares as long as the facts check out and the villain gets put away Well, maybe not so confused - it's a business/picknick for the legal 'profession'
    "The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge"
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  12. #87
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    You can put up a pretty good argument in favour of the Napoleonic system of investigative judiciary. Watch some Maigrets! It's an interesting alternative to our adversarial system. Seek the truth instead of having a fight.... Not that it excludes fair defences of course. I'm still glad I'm not Carlos Ghosn right now.
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    'The Razor', with a nick-name like that I don't think he's one to be pussy-footing around.

    Call me simple but I still can't see how one could be expected to pay tax on a bonus that hadn't been paid yet or even why they have to declare this as income. There's many a slip between the cut and the lip and the bonus might never be paid. Look at Ghosn's bonus at Renault, the board has decided not to pay this so he get's no one penny.
    Paying for houses and stuff, sure there might be a case there but it depends on what's in his contract and no payment could have been made without someone senior, other than Ghosn, signing off on the payments. They're talking about millions here, it's not petty-cash (although it might be for Ghosn).

    Warning conspiracy theory ahead;

    Nissan wanted him out of the way because of Ghosn's takeover plan and this maneuver sure achieved that, if not permanently at least in the short term.

    Cheers
    RTT
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    Yeah. More like a takeover

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    Hurray for the New York Times -
    Carlos Ghosn Faces Japanese ĎJusticeí https://nyti.ms/2No4q28?smid=nytcore-ios-share


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  16. #91
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    I think the whole story stinks to high heaven and whatever the procedures in the Japanese world, they are on borrowed time. It is a free market and an internationalised world. If things drag on too much, external pressure will eventually build up and the Japanese will run out of time. Japan has to take note or be left out. Too bad they seem to cling on to practices not very well meshed with the international community. The signal this will send out is probably carefully watched by many others who may find themselves in the same position and may think twice before getting involved with Japanese companies. Whether or not Japan will see this as a disadvantage is anyone's guess, but I doubt any other westerner will hurry in to save a Japanese company in the future or if they will they will probably avoid setting foot in Japan.

    Europe has been historically very reluctant to help Japan enter its market. Not sure how much Ghosn has facilitated Nissan selling in Europe, but it seems not enough. The future of Japanese companies' access to the European markets might suffer if this circus doesn't come to a resolution acceptable in Europe.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Europeans are suspicious and not used to to the reliability of Japanese cars
    "The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge"
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    They don't see why they should open their market to a country that does not intend to return the favour.

    As for quality, I guess you need to get out more.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Like comparing the reliability of my 2000 212,000km Toyota to my daughters Golf 7 Just had the waterpump replaced @ 90,000km - expensive as well.

    The Renault 19 was great except for the automatic transmission - guess where that came from?
    "The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge"
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I think the whole story stinks to high heaven and whatever the procedures in the Japanese world, they are on borrowed time. It is a free market and an internationalised world. If things drag on too much, external pressure will eventually build up and the Japanese will run out of time. Japan has to take note or be left out. Too bad they seem to cling on to practices not very well meshed with the international community. The signal this will send out is probably carefully watched by many others who may find themselves in the same position and may think twice before getting involved with Japanese companies. Whether or not Japan will see this as a disadvantage is anyone's guess, but I doubt any other westerner will hurry in to save a Japanese company in the future or if they will they will probably avoid setting foot in Japan.

    Europe has been historically very reluctant to help Japan enter its market. Not sure how much Ghosn has facilitated Nissan selling in Europe, but it seems not enough. The future of Japanese companies' access to the European markets might suffer if this circus doesn't come to a resolution acceptable in Europe.
    When you have a bunch of companies that make up the Renault Groupe, it doesn't matter where your vehicles are sold, it only matters how many you sell overall. Last year the Renault Groupe and it's affiliates (Renault, Dacia, Samsung, Alpine and Lada, Nissan and Mitsubishi) were the largest car manufacturer in the world, beating both VW (Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, SEAT, Škoda) and Toyota (boring) into the world's top sales. The fact that the Renault group shares technology and purchasing power between it's partners means it saves money, but also that it's wide range of products suit widely spaced markets. It's a strategy that may have been too successful for the Japanese........
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Yes, it doesn't matter for the company, but it does matter for the country. And even though I think the Japanese sell a lot more in Europe than the other way around, they would still like more of a share of the market. Which is tough, given that the Euro market is probably the most difficult for foreign auto makers to break into. The EU on the other hand has no reason to facilitate Japan's exports into its own market, and especially in cars where there is plenty on offer from domestic production and a vast number of jobs is at stake.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 23rd February 2019 at 04:22 AM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    Like comparing the reliability of my 2000 212,000km Toyota to my daughters Golf 7 Just had the waterpump replaced @ 90,000km - expensive as well.

    The Renault 19 was great except for the automatic transmission - guess where that came from?
    Your example is like using localised cold weather examples to argue against long term climate warming.

    But since we're here already, I will raise you one. Ferraris are not as reliable as Toyotas either.

    I think that comparison misses your own point made above. You said quality. Well, quality is not always the same thing as reliability.

    My wife's 2005 Toyota has 274k km and nothing ever went wrong. Her former Honda had over 300k km when sold and nothing went wrong with it either. The difference was that I had done the maintenance on the Honda every year, whereas for the Toyota I can't remember when I last opened the bonnet and I never use mechanics for any of our cars. Previously, she had a 405 Mi16 S2, which I maintained as well and she enjoyed 100k km in it with no problems.

    Which one is in your opinion better quality?

    Your daughter's Golf is a high maintenance car. Do the maintenance and I doubt there will be any problems. Or else accept she bought a car she can't afford. Gone are the days when Golfs were simple basic cars for the working class. I've had a Golf 2 diesel (1992) I sold with nearly 500k km on the clock still going strong (had a leaky sunroof though), which had a very simple agricultural engine and a manual 'box. No problems ever, and did 5l/100km in city traffic. But that was then, this is now.

    Besides, there are a few other manufacturers in Europe you might have heard of. I'll give it to you that some are not represented here, but I would advise that Dacia would be a more appropriate candidate to compare against a Toyota in terms of engineering sophistication. And if we look at the sales figures (or just around the streets) in Europe where both cars are available side by side, I would say Dacia wins hands down and at a fraction of the price. Which is better quality?
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 23rd February 2019 at 04:09 AM.
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    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  23. #98
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    Of all the vehicles I have ever owned the 2006 Toyota Kluger wins hands down as the most expensive vehicle to run and maintain. At 130,000 k's I was so pleased to see the end of it. Plus Toyota service was expensive and very poor at two seperate large dealerships. The supposed recall for brake problems a joke. I will never ever own another Toyota, ever, ever. My 600,000 k's Renault R20 without a doubt the cheapest.
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    Can't complain about the quality of my old Toyota either and it's great fun to drive as well.

    Maybe we should add owner satisfaction to the equation for mass produced cars? Sure, a Ferrari etc are high quality money pits and no doubt owner satisfaction is also high (going by a n 1 survey of my BIL's 12 cyl.Fazza doing an engine overhaul @ under 100,000km )
    There a always exceptions with every make and sometimes models/engines turn out to be well below expectations going by experiences with a mates Toyota UAV (and Sunroof's) as well as with other makes.

    The Golf is very nice to drive. The loan petrol TSI she had a few months ago when hers was in repair was an exceptionally smooth drive for a small car.

    Don't know the Dacia at all and non of my relos in Europe have one. Must be good cars if they are comparable to Toyota! What's their hybrid model like?
    "The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge"
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    Once you take the electrickery route involving numerous reporting sensors you are basically all equal in your reliability these days.
    Thereís an approaching tsunami for the ICE auto industry and some wonít come out the other side anyway.


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