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  1. #26
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    Germany in the 30s and 40s too.


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  2. #27
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    It’s strange that there have been no know American finance executives associated with the ‘ratings agencies’ involved in the AAA rating of mortgage backed securities and the subsequent GFC debacle that have been so treated.
    Smells more like a place coup to me.


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    I've worked quite a lot overseas since 1978. A long time ago I came to the conclusion that I'd never want a senior position with any mining company in another jurisdiction for precisely these reasons. The wrong allegation, presented correctly for local laws and playing to the appropriate politics, can be nearly impossible to deal with, and certainly it can take years. There were some expatriate managers stuck in Indonesia for several years over allegations of gold processing causing mercury pollution. Their mine used cyanide not mercury, but there's wide knowledge of illegal, small scale miners still using mercury.... So, despite it being very clear, it took perhaps 3 years to get cleared, if I recall correctly.

    I'm glad I'm not Carlos Ghosn right now.
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    I would have liked to hear something from the European Court of justice/human rights along the lines of cooperation and thus dealing with the ‘loss-of-face’ problem Ghosn now faces.
    It will be guilt by torture otherwise........and our fearless leaders will remain mute throughout.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    I would have liked to hear something from the European Court of justice/human rights along the lines of cooperation and thus dealing with the ‘loss-of-face’ problem Ghosn now faces. It will be guilt by torture otherwise........and our fearless leaders will remain mute throughout. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    You got it in one.
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post
    I see the French have hit back with some fraud accusations of their own in the bureaucratic / QANGO arena. Some political leverage in the offering maybe....

    BBC - The head of Japan's ​Olympic Committee is being formally investigated in France for alleged corruption in the awarding of the 2020 Games to Tokyo, a French judicial source has said.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46836001
    https://japantoday.com/category/crim...okyo-Games-bid
    I think this person made the linkage of the cases too in comments

    24( +26 / -2 )


    Ascissor Jan. 11 07:54 pm JST
    In 2016, French prosecutors announced an investigation into
    What's up with this bizarre foreign practice of investigating and building a case before throwing the suspect into the slammer??

  7. #32
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    The previous comparison of the Japanese courts with Nazi Germany was silly. The criminal court system was originally modelled on common European jury-less practice. What makes it a little different from here is that the police and prosecutors do not mount weak cases in courts speculatively. Minor criminal matters, and rehabilitation, are often dealt with out of court.

    Since it has reached a court Mr Ghosn would be very worried about the material the prosecutors will actually present.

    The court disclosed why he is in gaol.

    PS Has there been any statement that the police have interrogated him? It can be done over weeks without legal representation in criminal matters.
    Last edited by seasink; 12th January 2019 at 03:31 PM.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    The previous comparison of the Japanese courts with Nazi Germany was silly. The criminal court system was originally modelled on common European jury-less practice. What makes it a little different from here is that the police and prosecutors do not mount weak cases in courts speculatively. Minor criminal matters, and rehabilitation, are often dealt with out of court.

    Since it has reached a court Mr Ghosn would be very worried about the material the prosecutors will actually present.

    The court disclosed why he is in gaol.
    A 99% success rate says quite a bit about their version of justice.
    I doubt the French would have that success rate.


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  9. #34
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    Weak and iffy cases simply don't go to court there.

    They have other means of dealing with crime, including immense social pressure. Like everything else in that country, efficiiency is prized. That includes a nasty interrogation system and regimented prisons. Japan is much more like western Europe than south east Asia or China.

    Like Australia, cops come in prefectural and national flavours. Tourists (who behave) will find them quite friendly.
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  10. #35
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    Not waiting for the outcome of any trial in which he might be the star, Carlos Ghosn has resigned his position:
    https://www.drive.com.au/news/ghosn-...renault-120613
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Not waiting for the outcome of any trial in which he might be the star, Carlos Ghosn has resigned his position:
    https://www.drive.com.au/news/ghosn-...renault-120613
    As CEO he has acted appropriately and in the best interests of the shareholders.
    I wonder what Trump or Americans in general would think if the CEO of a transnational company was the head of GM or Ford and locked up indefinitely in order to extract a confession as trade for release to trial.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Not waiting for the outcome of any trial in which he might be the star, Carlos Ghosn has resigned his position:
    https://www.drive.com.au/news/ghosn-...renault-120613
    Yes, I agree with his decision. With his knowledge of Japanese trading and inside the industry knowledge, how much will he be paid to either keep that secret, or reveal to others ? A purchasable adviser option that would be attractive to many competing organisations, rather than appointing him to another position in the automotive Industry, simply recognising his age and experience.

    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    As CEO he has acted appropriately and in the best interests of the shareholders.
    I wonder what Trump or Americans in general would think if the CEO of a transnational company was the head of GM or Ford and locked up indefinitely in order to extract a confession as trade for release to trial.


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    ...... I meant release to sentencing. (“guilty” will have been already extracted from him)


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  14. #39
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    I don't know why there is an assumption that he is an innocent being persecuted by a wicked system for political reasons. He isn't in China.

    Japan's legal system isn't a lot unlike France's or Germany's. That's what it was modelled on. If the accusations are true and happened here instead he would have few defenders. Let's wait and see.

    In the meanwhile he is in an unpleasantly super-efficient prison, where I hope he has become used to local food. We normally deny bail for serious cases here as well, and regard these matters as fraud.
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    I don't know why there is an assumption that he is an innocent being persecuted by a wicked system for political reasons. He isn't in China.

    Japan's legal system isn't a lot unlike France's or Germany's. That's what it was modelled on. If the accusations are true and happened here instead he would have few defenders. Let's wait and see.

    In the meanwhile he is in an unpleasantly super-efficient prison, where I hope he has become used to local food. We normally deny bail for serious cases here as well, and regard these matters as fraud.
    Do you seriously think you could be jailed indefinitely in solitary confinement without your own counsel and forced to sleep on a mat lose weight, show signs of rapid ageing and illness until you plead guilty .......and that’s the way European courts would treat a Lebanese born, Brazilian raised French citizen heading a transnational conglomerate would be treated?.


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  16. #41
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    He is in Japan. People sleep on the floor. They do not eat French or Lebanese food. He may not like that being offered by the prison system - I know it won't be gourmet, and has too much rice and strange seafood for my taste, though he has been in Japan long enough to have got used to it if he tried.

    I 'll bet I couldn't find a Vegemite sandwich or a decent pie in Paris either.

    He is not in a local police station where complaints have been made about roughly acquired confessions in the past. It is much more like a very serious tax and company fraud charge against a non-citizen in Australia who comes and goes often. Would we deny bail?

    Americans shackle people in court on criminal charges also, yet American papers have complained about that.

    Wait until the trial.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    He is in Japan. People sleep on the floor. They do not eat French or Lebanese food. He may not like that being offered by the prison system - I know it won't be gourmet, and has too much rice and strange seafood for my taste, though he has been in Japan long enough to have got used to it if he tried.

    I 'll bet I couldn't find a Vegemite sandwich or a decent pie in Paris either.

    He is not in a local police station where complaints have been made about roughly acquired confessions in the past. It is much more like a very serious tax and company fraud charge against a non-citizen in Australia who comes and goes often. Would we deny bail?

    Americans shackle people in court on criminal charges also, yet American papers have complained about that.

    Wait until the trial.
    What trial?.
    Solitary until you plead guilty.
    No taxation counsel makes any form of defence impossible unless you also happen to be au fait with Japanese Brazilian and French tax law. I doubt he is because that’s why you employ them.
    His court appearance won’t happen until he pleads guilty.
    It’s probably simply a crude retaking of hegemony.
    I just hope diplomacy is going on discreetly in order to save Japanese ‘loss of face’. I hope !


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    Japan is the same as Japan of the 40's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duffster View Post
    Japan is the same as Japan of the 40's.
    I suspect MBA courses will be updated to educate students to the hazards of doing business in combination with Japanese companies, particularly if you find yourself leading it.
    When Ford salvaged Mazda back in the 90s I wonder if the then CEO knew about potential consequences of visiting Japan.......then again maybe he never went to Japan or being an American was an entirely different matter.


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  20. #45
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    Japan is the same as Japan of the 40's.
    Before or after the Americans changed the laws and systems? Have you been there?

    My understanding is that there are few prosecutors so only very serious criminal cases (this one?), or cases with overwhelming proof are likely to see a courtroom. You can also be compensated if acquitted. One of the good things about the place is that it isn't overrun by lawyers.

    It is true that police can interview for many days in the hope of a confession, which doesn't fit my view of fairness, and police can easily get judicial approval for extended interviews, which is also unfair, but under their law a confession cannot be relied on for a conviction. I may be misled, but I was told that a confession will often obtain a reduced sentence if it contains verifiable information only the guilty could know. I guess it acts like "remorse" here. Is Ghosn being interrogated in prison though?

    Ghosn's Brazilian, French and Lebanese background will make him familiar with this modified French system.

  21. #46
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    Default Carlos Ghosn sacked

    His case would be so complex even a senior international tax expert would have trouble seeing he’s a French citizen probably living in a low tax regime location eg Monaco .
    Denying him his required counsel is just another way of depriving him of any way of defending himself.
    He’s been in jail for months and won’t appear in court for about another 6 months unless he pleads guilty.
    They have a 99% success rate which may mean the 1% NOT found guilty have either died in jail or gone mad and been institutionalised.

    Many thousands have their jobs because he saved Renault and Nissan but he’s treated like a major threat to society.
    Renault fans are silent.

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    Sounds like you have facts we are not privy to?
    "We prefer to believe what we prefer to be true"
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    I baffled why he hasn't been brought before the court by now. If their investigations and case prosecution is so thorough I'd have expected that to have happened by now. So what is delaying the case for the prosecution, lack of evidence?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dvr View Post
    I baffled why he hasn't been brought before the court by now. If their investigations and case prosecution is so thorough I'd have expected that to have happened by now. So what is delaying the case for the prosecution, lack of evidence?
    He refuses to admit he’s done anything wrong.....so he’ll remain incarcerated until he does. Without his counsel.
    That’s why they have a 99% success rate.
    It beggars belief.


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