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  1. #51
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    You would just be replacing one old engine with another, look at the K4M's from a Clio, they are 15yrs younger, ~100hp stock, and you can still get bits from repco / supercheap.

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    Quick question, would a Fuego motor bolt up to my gearbox?

  3. #53
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Most likely, but no idea re clutch / flywheel / input shaft.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by saje View Post
    Quick question, would a Fuego motor bolt up to my gearbox?
    You will need to change the bell housing and the input shaft, and gear ratios will probably be wrong.

    In standard form these put out about 110 HP.

    You will most likely run into space problems as well because the Fuego engine is physically quite bigger and is also heavier.
    Regards Col

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    OK, rule that one out, too much work. Thanks for replies!

    Guess I could turbo or supercharge. Anyone on Aussiefrogs done a simple blown 12?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by saje View Post
    Quick question, would a Fuego motor bolt up to my gearbox?
    If I had to stick a Renault 2l donk in, it would be from a clio sport.
    If it was a turbo 2l, it would be from a Megan sport,

    Just go nuts and throw a RB26 in!!
    Last edited by jo proffi; 25th August 2018 at 09:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    If I had to stick a Renault 2l donk in, it would be from a clio sport.
    If it was a turbo 2l, it would be from a Megan sport,

    Just go nuts and throw a RB26 in!!
    In a world where i had ample funds, those options would be a goer. BUT, ample funds i do not have. $500 TOPS is my budget. So maybe a 2nd hand rurbo or supercharger unit. I have no idea about turbos and don't want to fit decomp plate so low boost would be the go. Supercharger seems possible. Suck thru a 1 3/4 SU which i have and simply work out pulley ratios. Turbo, would really need help with that one, ie- which unit would be best suited.

  8. #58
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    Or look further afield. The R12 engine was built under licence all over the world. It's almost impossible someone didn't up the power. The variants built in Romania for instance evolved to a monopoint injection at the end of its life with about 70HP or something like that. I would hazard a guess bits would just bolt on. Dunno how hard would be to get those, though.

    South America built these as well and they have quite a following. See what you can find there.

    500 bucks doesn't allow for much, but I would look at electronic ignition like Megajolt or some such.That'll eat into the budget a bit, but it will give you some extra tuning possibilities.

    On the other hand, with your budget I don't think you'd get much change if you just rebuilt the engine stock with new parts where possible. At least you'll know you have the rated power back.
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    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    Hi saje
    These are in your budget; https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Car-Supe...AAAOSwHNxZ6HUM

    Jaahn
    PS this is a joke !

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    Hi saje
    For a more sensible reply ! Here is the Merc small supercharger, they seem unwanted mostly. Perhaps small Merc owners do not play with their cars to hot 'em up much. No need for power on the trip to the hairdresser
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MERCEDES....c100005.m1851

    If you were sensible with the pressure you would get a reasonable power boost without too much work or problems. Water injection was a traditional method to control some problems. Water is cheap too

    There is no technical difference between the boost from a supercharger or a turbo, so a decompression plate is not required or is required for the same reasons for both. The difference between the two boost methods is the physical way of doing it. Turbos use a waste gate to control the boost pressure, you just gear the supercharger to get the boost correct.

    Read up about it in a real book instead of relying on crap from the internet. {Or worse still Utube}
    Jaahn

  11. #61
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Yeah with $500, you are not going to get very far. I'd also recommend just rebuilding the stock thing, maybe shave the head to get some proper compression in there (since you have an SU for it), lighten the flywheel, have everything balanced (you will easilly spend $500 just on that) and just drive the nugget

    We are all already jealous. Did you have another? How much
    Last edited by bowie; 28th August 2018 at 01:31 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  12. #62
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    Default you probably already have 80+ hp

    Standard single throat carb 1289cc R12 engine 60hp SAE at 5250rpm

    standard Dual throat carb R12 1289cc engine 68 hp SAE at 5500rpm

    Standard "V85" spec Renault 1289cc engine with dual throat carb 81hp SAE at 5900rpm (72hp DIN).

    Your engine probably already has a mild cam (Wade do a few good ones) and with the headers and twin SUs it's probably over 80hp and under 100hp.

    These engines are strong and under 100kg. Good luck getting better bang for buck for $500 or even $1000.
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  13. #63
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    (Wade do a few good ones)
    Correction: Wade used to do a few good ones.

    They closed 28 Feb 2014
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  14. #64
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saje View Post
    In a world where i had ample funds, those options would be a goer. BUT, ample funds i do not have. $500 TOPS is my budget.
    $500 is closer to $0 than what this sort of stuff will cost....so get what you have in the car working without spending a cent, and buy some tyres and go racing.
    Jo
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  15. #65
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    Good advice. Actually, I just realised all of us who barged in to show off our wisdom have forgotten the tires. Which may well cost more than the proposed budget.

    Change of plans.

    Price a set of tires and if they're in budget see what's left and then ask for advice here. Right now, I think you'd be lucky to have enough to fill the tank.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  16. #66
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Nah this guy seems to know whats going on, I mean you don't just run off and buy an open wheeler just because.

    And can I have a go?
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    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  17. #67
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    Yeah, but you know what they say. Even the most beautiful woman can only give what she's got.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Tyres are 2nd hand F3, and already have a set. DIY tyre softener will do for hillclimbs. Um, yes, to fill the tank is only 5 litres. Should afford that.
    Well, I've named $500 as my budget, let's see what I can do. I don't see a freshen up as value for money. Might get me a half dozen hp back at best but engine doesn't seem too tired. Balancing might make a bit of difference but bang for buck, not great value.
    To be clear, I'm not out to win anything. Could care less actually. Just want some fun and 60hp will provide that....for a time.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by saje View Post
    Just want some fun and 60hp will provide that....for a time.
    I really wish you'd stop calling it a 60hp engine. As I said above 60hp was just the most basic version of this engine. Sure if the guy who built your engine did bad head work and fitted an inappropriate camshaft, it might only produce 60hp, but if they left the head standard and fitted an appropriate camshaft it would likely produce around 80hp with that exhaust and carbs. If they were smart with their head work and did a lot of time on a dyno, it might even produce 90-100hp.

    These engines are similar to the Nissan A12 and Toyota 4K which were cheap, light, strong and easy to hot up. There's a reason so many motorsport specials used those engines. Often, when I go to a club motorsport event, these kinds of cars can still be near the top of the field, provided they are properly looked after, and have good tyres, brake pads and balanced handling (and a good driver).
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    Quote Originally Posted by davemcbean View Post
    Standard single throat carb 1289cc R12 engine 60hp SAE at 5250rpm

    standard Dual throat carb R12 1289cc engine 68 hp SAE at 5500rpm

    Standard "V85" spec Renault 1289cc engine with dual throat carb 81hp SAE at 5900rpm (72hp DIN).

    Your engine probably already has a mild cam (Wade do a few good ones) and with the headers and twin SUs it's probably over 80hp and under 100hp.

    These engines are strong and under 100kg. Good luck getting better bang for buck for $500 or even $1000.
    Ok, google search doesnt tell me what V85 refers to except it is in an Alpine and may or may not have domed pistons. What exactly is V85?
    Im not running the SU carbs. They were too large and the home made manifold was very poorly executed. Ive put a weber downdraught and what looks to becan original manifold and now just need a good tune. Already has electronic ignition fitted to dizzy.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by saje View Post
    Ok, google search doesnt tell me what V85 refers to except it is in an Alpine and may or may not have domed pistons. What exactly is V85?
    Im not running the SU carbs. They were too large and the home made manifold was very poorly executed. Ive put a weber downdraught and what looks to becan original manifold and now just need a good tune. Already has electronic ignition fitted to dizzy.
    The V85 was the base model of the Alpine A110 and the highest selling model. It had a Renault 12 1289cc engine with the same 32DIR weber progressive carb as the R12TS/GL and the same 9:1 compression ratio (so pistons are likely the same), but instead of 68hp SAE at 5500rpm, it produced 81hp SAE at 5900rpm. I'd be willing to bet a large some of money that the only difference between this engine and a R12TS engine are the exhaust, camshaft and air filter.
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    what do I  have and what can I  use?-20180829_123456.jpgThanks for the info davemcbean!
    I say 60hp because as mentioned before, far as i know this is a bog standard engine except for headers.Def no headwork done.The twin SU carb manifold was poorly executed and would have cost hp at best. It could be fixed and i might have a go at it, but would require filling and re-blending to the mating surface.
    It may have a cam as it runs 'lumpy' but this may be the timing and poor tuning of the carb. Previous owner said he had ignition set on something which seemed way too high (23 btdc if i recall). Will sus it out when i get a timing light.
    Finishing off the re-wiring and now fitting some gloor bracingbto the ladder frame chassis then partial new flooring. After that align wheels and take for a run. Then start to play with engine and suspension geometry.
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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by saje View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20180829_123456.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	91.6 KB 
ID:	108812Thanks for the info davemcbean!
    I say 60hp because as mentioned before, far as i know this is a bog standard engine except for headers.Def no headwork done.
    The 68hp engine was just as common in Australia (although I guess expressed in DIN figures rather than SAE, it's probably about 60hp). This is the one with the twin throat Weber as fitted to the R12 GL. The single throat Solex 60hp version was fitted to the R12 TL. After they went 1.4 litre in 1976 they all had the Weber and 66hp DIN.

    Given the R12 was one of the most popular European cars on Sydney roads in the 1970s (I counted 12 complete cars in Casula Auto wreckers in 1991), someone is bound to have a few motors and both good stock and hot bits lying around. Ask David Collier at Collier Automotive in Granville. He's the old Renault Guru in Sydney and may know were there's some hot bits lying about (cam, carb, headers) and what ones work relatively well together.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davemcbean View Post
    The 68hp engine was just as common in Australia (although I guess expressed in DIN figures rather than SAE, it's probably about 60hp). This is the one with the twin throat Weber as fitted to the R12 GL. The single throat Solex 60hp version was fitted to the R12 TL. After they went 1.4 litre in 1976 they all had the Weber and 66hp DIN.

    Given the R12 was one of the most popular European cars on Sydney roads in the 1970s (I counted 12 complete cars in Casula Auto wreckers in 1991), someone is bound to have a few motors and both good stock and hot bits lying around. Ask David Collier at Collier Automotive in Granville. He's the old Renault Guru in Sydney and may know were there's some hot bits lying about (cam, carb, headers) and what ones work relatively well together.
    Awesome thanks mate. Will definitely give him a call.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by saje View Post
    O K, so got a Sakura oil filter from evilbay for $24 delivered. Wasn't sure about Sakura but reviews seemed good.
    Weight seems to range from 85kg to 116kg for engine alone. Ad another 35ish kg for the box and we're looking at close to 150kg for 60 to 80hp. Read one of Frans 807 build threads and looks like several thousand ($1200 in webers alone) for about 130 to 150 highly strung (on the track) hp. This might be heresy to the French car lovers here (though rest of mechanicals would remain R12) but on a purely practical level, seems i can get stock reliable 160hp, albeit with a drop in torque, from a 1000cc motorbike engine with a 60kg drop in weight for about $1200. Power to weight would go from 1:0.127 to 1: 0.39 , a tripling with nice weight reduction and highly reliable. Anyway, this is dreaming further down the 'track'.
    Hi,

    I would like to mention that the engine build you read about (mentioned above) in a Dauphine, was on a par with a Toyota Starlet powered by a Suzuki Hyabusa engine. Times were always as close as tenths and hundreds of a second on their runs. However the Hyabusa gearbox spat its dummy a few times due to the added weight of the Starlet body even though it is highly modified and it is as light as possible.

    Unfortunately the 807 engine and the Dauphine are now racing in Japan, bought by a well known racer over there.

    So "highly strung" can pop up at a different source, the gearbox. Racing is never plain sailing.

    Frans.
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

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