Renault 17tl camshaft data
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Thread: Renault 17tl camshaft data

  1. #1
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    Default Renault 17tl camshaft data

    I am about to get my camshaft regrinded, but the workshop are asking for some data that I have a hard time giving them. As far as I know the camshaft is a stock camshaft from a Renault 17tl (807-10] engine. The workshop is asking for the "nock angle" (don't know if this is the correct term) on the cam. And what the angle on the hole for the valve lifters are?

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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    That is a difficult question. First you will have to tell us what do you want to do with this engine. Do you want to race it? What carburation are you going to use? Are you fitting a good exhaust system on? What compression ratio are you planning to use?

    All the above goes hand in hand.
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    I am sorry if I didn't manage to explain this properly. They are after the nock angle on the stock camshaft. As it is now, before they regrind it.

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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    I think we have a translate problem. I can give you the figures of a 1565 Renault 16TS engine and maybe they can work from there. The engine code is 807-03.

    Camshaft Intake: Open 21deg BTDC closes 59deg ABDC. Exhaust: 59deg BBDC closes 21deg ATDC.

    Valve guide angles I might have at home, I will look and give them if I do find it.
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    If you have the head off, could you not take it to your camshaft regrinder and have them do measurements?

    Good of luck with the project.

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    A 17TL camshaft has different angles to the 16. What you need is someone with the renault manual to scan some pictures.

    From manual MR185

    Engine 807-12 : inlet open 40 BTDC close at 72 ABDC, exhaust open at 72 BBDC, close 24 ATDC

    Engine 807-10 and 11: 24, 68, 68, 24.

    As for the nock angle, I do not know what that is? Maybe knock angle?
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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Thanks for that Schlitz, so I am sure the engineering shop can calculate what they need with that info.

    In Afrikaans we have the word "nok" which is the top of a roof, the ridge. So that can relate to lobe maybe? Lobe angle?

    The valve angles are as follows. Intake is 23deg. Exh is 26deg.

    Regards, Frans.
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    Thank you for all your answers.

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    Had to check the web for the "nock angle" term the workshop used. It seems it is the same as lobe separation angle.

    The lobe separation angle is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points, or centerlines, of the intake and exhaust lobes,” says Eric Bolander of Erson Cams. “It affects the amount of valve overlap; that is the brief period of time when both the intake and exhaust valves are open

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    Check out this site as good as many for what you want to achieve in performance

    COMP Cams® - Sorry...

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Lobe separation angle for both versions of R17TL engines is 110 degrees both for inlet and exhaust.

    Nice observation about Afrikaans. I think that is from dutch? Can't be that far from norwegian.

    Well, it looks like between us kiwis, aussies and south africans we can cover pretty much all the languages.

    Those valve angles Frans are for R16 as well? Do I need to check for R17?
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    On my 17TS, for a lot of years, I tried to find an odd idle. Sort of like a miss, but pulling plug leads, changing plugs, fiddling with the Webers never solved the problem. The cam had been regound but supposedly to standard 17TS grind. Eventualy I stripped the timing cover off again and with a home made a degree wheel found : inlet open 42 BTDC close at 72 ABDC, exhaust open at 72 BBDC, close 56 ATDC where as the ATDC should be 42 degrees. So I am happy that that is the cause of the lumpy sound at idle. Why was it ground like that, who knows? Not at my instigation. I am not sure what effect this would have on performance. I guess if I studied the reference above it might tell me.

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    The valve angles are for the cross flow head. That is the 807 that he has. It is measured from the vertical line.

    Regards Frans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    On my 17TS, for a lot of years, I tried to find an odd idle. Sort of like a miss, but pulling plug leads, changing plugs, fiddling with the Webers never solved the problem. The cam had been regound but supposedly to standard 17TS grind. Eventualy I stripped the timing cover off again and with a home made a degree wheel found : inlet open 42 BTDC close at 72 ABDC, exhaust open at 72 BBDC, close 56 ATDC where as the ATDC should be 42 degrees. So I am happy that that is the cause of the lumpy sound at idle. Why was it ground like that, who knows? Not at my instigation. I am not sure what effect this would have on performance. I guess if I studied the reference above it might tell me.
    Actually, no.

    I made a small mistake in my post above.

    The 807-12 is the 17TS/G engine not 17TL, so your specs should be the same (40/72/72/24).

    Your suspected spec (40/72/72/40) is the 12G spec (160HP).
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 27th July 2018 at 11:21 PM.
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    Thank you very much!!
    Hope I have all the information I need now.

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    40/72/72/40 is also the spec for the 844 - 12 that is fitted to R1317 and R1327 R17TS and 17G. The other engines are 1565 cc injected and the 1317/27 phase 1 models had 1605cc injected engines. The yank cars had some thing different again.

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Yes, I forgot about the 844 (and 843) engines.

    I wonder why Renault played with the cam timing between 844 and 807 engines (or does my book have a misprint?).

    And another thing I forgot.

    In german the camshaft is "nockenwelle" which should have tipped me off as to what "nock" meant (cam/lobe).
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 29th July 2018 at 01:24 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post

    In german the camshaft is "nockenwelle" which should have tipped me off as to what "nock" meant (cam/lobe).
    The hindsight! In Afrikaans the camshaft is "nokas" which directly translated to English is "lobe shaft".
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    Hope you can help me again I've just received another question. The question was about maximum overlap at tdc. They needed to be sure that the valves didn't hit eachother.

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Are you sure it isn't lift at TDC you're after, rather than overlap?
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Are you sure it isn't lift at TDC you're after, rather than overlap?
    Are you thinking that the valve will hit the piston? There is a huge danger in the overlap that when the valves on a crossflow are at an angle opposing one another they can touch/hit/jam when the valve heads open and close. That is because the heads move closer to one another on opening and when the overlap is too big they will hit.

    There is no solution to that on a single cam.

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    Frans has the answer. Has to do with the angle on the valves.

    I believe that I don't have any problems regarding valves and pistons.

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    R8RX.

    All I can offer you is the profile that I have stored at our cam grinder for a 807 motor. This is a very hot profile for racing purposes. This overlap has been proven to be safe with standard size valves. If you want this they can copy it and it will be ok. If you want it milder the overlap will decrease and it will be more safe.

    This is at home, so if you want it I can give it to you tonight (our time).

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    That would be very nice Frans. Thank you!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by R8RX View Post
    Frans has the answer. Has to do with the angle on the valves.

    I believe that I don't have any problems regarding valves and pistons.
    Yes, I know it has to do with the angle of the valves in the head, but that is set, you can not change it (at least not without some serious machining).

    The timing info we already gave you allows you to calculate the overlap, that is why I thought you wanted the lift, because that was the only thing you could change once you had decided on the timing.

    The only other variable would be the lobe profile (which will decide how quickly the valves open/close) but that is not info you will find in manuals.

    Frans' profile will give you all of that, I suspect but like he said, you will end up with an aggressive racing profile so you need to check with Frans if that will work with stock lobe angles, which was what I thought you wanted.

    All that aside, from your question I thought you already had a stock cam and you wanted a stock grind, so the workshop should have been able to measure all these things on your cam.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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