My immaculate R8 Gordini????
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Thread: My immaculate R8 Gordini????

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Default My immaculate R8 Gordini????

    Hi All,

    Some time ago I developed a water leak in the G and it dripped onto my feet. So I looked underneath the dash and noticed the rust of the infamous gutter. As a temporary fix I smeared some bitumen over it and it lasted very long before the leak started again. So I smeared some more bitumen and that lasted a long time as well. A repeat, more water on my feet and I decided to drive it so that the front tank is almost empty and then today I took it out and removed the boot lining. WHAT A MESS!!!

    The water must have pushed up from a blockage further down in the gutter and caused the sides to rust and then in turn the water ran into the boot underneath the rubber mat and even worse under the front fuel tank. So unless I had a flat wheel and removed the spare wheel and stood under the car I would not be able to see the disaster.

    You can see in the photos what I have in hand and need to repair. I had a quick look through AF and came upon a thread or two that I can learn from. I like the one I saw that has an inspection cover high up that can be removed to clean and flush the gutter. I think I will do that as well.

    Does anyone have some additional tips for me? As you can see, its not only the gutter but some of the boot area as well, in the shadow of the drill battery.





    A big mess isn't it? I hope that once the rugged edges and rust are cut away and cleaned it will be less frightening.

    Frans.

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Rob Lee from Adelaide had some replacement gutter pieces pressed and had them for sale (on here).
    Not sure if he has any left but could be worth asking. I can’t recall his AF name, but I’d probably have his private email address I could PM you if needed.

    KB
    KB


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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Bugger. What a mess indeed.

    I bought the last of Rob's gutter pressings, mine being less than perfect but nothing like yours Frans.

    I'd happily post it over as a very useable template - it's small but a complex curved shape. If planning goes correctly I could collect it in November. I'll just have to think about where I put if for safe keeping. PM me an address please, as I've probably lost it!

    Cheers

    John
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    The pop rivets indicate it has had work done before. I have made a new gutter by opening a vice the right width and then working with a ball pane hammer making a gutter in a piece of flat from an old bonnet. I then welded this in place and covered it with a piece of flat sheet again with a weld. I have also used a home made press with a mechanical jack to press in the grooves on the new floor of the boot as well as a round space where the rubber bung fits. Building male and female dies out of scrap steel is pretty easy if you own a welder. A hydraulic press is easier than a mechanical jack but at the time presses were not as affordable as they are now. I still have the dies for the floor grooves may be 30 years on and haven't needed them since but I have a Floride that needs new floors in the cabin and boot so who knows I might still need to dust them off one day.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Thank you for the comments so far. What is your thoughts on an aluminium gutter? I will repair the floor part with sheet steel and weld it in but then rivet the aluminium gutter in position with and use a roof 25 year sealant.

    Frans.
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    Fellow Frogger! R8 Dream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post

    You can see in the photos what I have in hand and need to repair. I had a quick look through AF and came upon a thread or two that I can learn from. I like the one I saw that has an inspection cover high up that can be removed to clean and flush the gutter. I think I will do that as well.
    Hi Frans
    This is what I have in place. If you are after a practical fix, this might suit, as it does allow for routine inspection of the gully channel. But if you are after originality, then best follow John's lead and have them specially made.
    Angelo

    My immaculate R8 Gordini????-img_1150.jpgMy immaculate R8 Gordini????-img_1156.jpgMy immaculate R8 Gordini????-image.jpgMy immaculate R8 Gordini????-photo329.jpg
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Ouch.

    Could be worse, I guess.

    Buyer beware of immaculate cars.

    Is it not possible to just make a spout on the drain neck and attach a rubber hose that drains away from metal work? Like on some modern (or even old) cars? On my old BMW 2000CS there were a lot of arrangements like that. The hose was self closing at the end point as well, but that only served to collect muck when the rubber lost its elasticity. I just replaced them with straight rubber tubes extended to drain under the car as low as possible.

    You might have to do some metal work to create the drain/spout piece, but at least you know there won't be any inaccessible areas where muck will inevitably collect and start rust again.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    The metal gutter has to be extended past the foot well at least because that is where it has rusted to drip on feet. A hose won't work there.

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Yeah, not an ideal situation.

    But one thing I would avoid like the plague is drilling anything. That is just an invitation to rust. I am talking about the pop rivet idea or any other idea that would need holes drilled anywhere near the gutter. If anything, I would use polyurethane to bond the top of the gutter. Or I would try to move the whole drain somewhere else where a rubber hose extension on a spout would work.

    You could also weld the separating wall and put a spout in it and run a hose on the bottom of the boot but I understand the boot floor needs to be flat for the fuel tank to sit on.

    Yeah, not ideal. I hate boxed off sections/double skins in car chassies.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    My immaculate R8 Gordini????-drain-channel.jpgFrans,
    Yours is way beyond the reaches of my repair panel. Here is a photo FWIW.
    www.r8gordiniregister.com
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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Hi All,

    Now that the area is cleaned with with a wire brush it looks like I will have to do my own shape. I will make a template and see what how close to the original it can be. I am sure it is going to be a little bigger than standard.

    Another drawback that I had is the rubberising inside. I will take it all out because somehow the water trickled down underneath it to arrive at the bottom and had nowhere to evaporate because it was lying below the rubber, the rubber mat and the fuel tank.

    Thanks for your offer JohnW but it will not help me at all. I had some good ideas planted in my mind.

    Frans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpinesau View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	drain channel.jpg 
Views:	103 
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ID:	107569Frans,
    Yours is way beyond the reaches of my repair panel. Here is a photo FWIW.
    Ah yes, so right. Thanks for the clarification. You can see I haven't used it yet...
    JohnW

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    Hi Frans ,
    You always like a challenge and I am sure your solution will be 120% so keep the pictures coming.
    You asked about an aluminum cover plate. I say NO. Different metals will introduce odd corrosion potentials that speed up the corrosion process. One answer might be to use zinc rich paint on everything before your final coating.
    I also like schlitzaugen's idea of using bonding rather than the holes and rivets(also aluminum). If you use rivets then use monel and they will never corrode away or cause corrosion.
    Good luck Jaahn
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    I only had to repair the top of mine, as any rust in the bottom was inside the steering area, and cut it out with tin snips. Then I used (dare I say it) galvanised steel sheet and zinc-plated short self-tapping screws, and sealant of some sort under the edges. I probably soused it in Fishoil too, but really can't remember. It seems fine after about 30 years. I wouldn't say there's absolutely no deterioration because I haven't unscrewed it and had a look, but my feet are dry. Car is garaged of course.

    I'd not use aluminium in the sheeting or in the rivets. Steel, with lots of zinc everywhere would be my formula too. Great stuff, zinc.

    One thing for sure, we are about to see a lovely bit of work done!

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R8 Dream View Post
    Hi Frans This is what I have in place. If you are after a practical fix, this might suit, as it does allow for routine inspection of the gully channel. But if you are after originality, then best follow John's lead and have them specially made.
    Angelo
    Very nice Angelo! Inspection is a good idea. Mine's due its 30 year check too....
    JohnW

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    Why not a zink cover plate?
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  17. #17
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Zinc works very well in bars in Paris.....

    I'd think "why not zinc for the bottom part?"

    Nice to hear from you!
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReidarUF View Post
    Why not a zink cover plate?
    Hi
    Because zinc is very weak and useless for structural things. Zinc coated steel or galvanised steel would be OK.
    Jaahn

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Very nice Angelo! Inspection is a good idea. Mine's due its 30 year check too....
    John, the reality is I can count on one hand the amount of time my has has been out in the rain over the last year, so what ever repair is done, will hardly going to be an issue for the txt 50 odd years!

    Angelo

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    POR15 and perhaps others I don't know of make a thick paint type goo that is used to repair fuel tanks and boxed chassis sections without opening them. You pour/push it inside and make sure it comes into contact on all sides and it sticks to the metal, even if it is rusty, they say. Never tried it myself, but others swear by it. I would try that after the repair is done.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Thanks Jaahn for the reminder of the potential developed in different metals. I won't be using aluminium then.

    About 8 years ago I needed some sheet steel in a hurry and I couldn't wait for the suppliers to open on the Monday so I went to Bunnings and bought a 3m length of some kind of treated steel that is used on the ridge of roofs. After I have cut the required amount it went outside for storage. I used a few small pieces in the mean time but I have also noticed that in all these years lying outside, not a sign of rust has formed and surprisingly not even the edges where it was cut with the tin snips. I tested it last night with a magnet because it was so good that I had my doubts. That was brought back into the workshop and I am now busy trying to shape the top part from the airbox to where it goes straight down.

    It will have to be in two pieces if hand formed. Schlitz, could you please elaborate more on the glue that you mentioned. Maybe a trade name and supplier?

    Frans.
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    Sikaflex 221 or better
    https://aus.sika.com/content/austral...08sa04103.html
    My immaculate R8 Gordini????-img_20150210_182638_315.jpg
    Built this whole cabin using Sika for adhesive lamination. Made from signage board and alu framing
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Frans, POR15 is the brand. I don't know any more about it, and it is carried in Oz by a few small shops.

    Don't know about NZ. Here's a link:

    https://www.por15.com/

    I have used their rust preventative paint and so far so good. Expensive stuff.

    The polyurethane stuff is Sikaflex, it is sold here by Bunnings nowadays as well as motor factors. Made in Germany where they have been using it for over 40 years (my old 1965 BMW had the bonnet and boot panels bonded with the stuff). Tough to remove even after all those years, you might rip the metal if you pull on it. Can't remember which one, but you will read on the tube ( seem to remember 227? - might have changed). They have a number of these sealants and one is used to bond windscreens in modern cars. I know that now there are a few others who make the same stuff but don't know more.

    https://aus.sika.com/content/austral...24sa08105.html
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    An alternative product to Sika is 3M-5200 polyurethane adhesive sealant. It is also available in a fast cure version. The bond is permanent; i.e: not designed to be pulled apart again.
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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Most of these will only delaminate with a lot of heat gun.

    Same as 3M 9323 Chassis glue for aircraft bonding and carbon fibre race car tubs and parts.

    Ray
    Ray geckoeng

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