R17/Virage Master Cylinder Conundrum
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Thread: R17/Virage Master Cylinder Conundrum

  1. #1
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    Default R17/Virage Master Cylinder Conundrum

    I'm trying to replace the master cylinder on my virage and I'm having trouble finding the correct item.

    I think my problem is that I'm trying to upgrade to the 20.6mm cylinder size from the standard 19mm, as per the 17G, because I'm running 17G brakes on it, and the virage appears to use a master cylinder similar to the R20 rather than the R17. Can anyone confirm this?

    I have what I thought was the correct master cylinder as the outlets were correct and the piston was 20.6mm, but the bolt holes to mount it to the booster are 70mm apart whereas the current master has mounting holes of 58mm, so I'm a bit stuck.

    Is there a master with 58mm mounting holes, a 20.6mm piston with the bank of 4 outlet pipes?

    Am I best to swap to an R20 booster as well, and will this bolt straight onto an R12 pedal assembly?

    Or should I be doing some careful work with a pillar drill to make it fit? *not the preferred option*

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  2. #2
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    The 17 G has a dual vacuum unit so may be different to a Virage. They are much larger both in diameter and depth. The brakes on a 17 G will stop with very light pedal pressure equel to any modern car. Not sure about the bolt spacing.

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    Yes the Virage dual and the 17 master are different. Didn't realize the bold pattern for the booster changed however.

    The more you know.

    I'm yet to rebuilt / replace my (what I believe is a 17ts master cylinder), I suggest I'd probably buy that of you assuming it will fit the booster I have if it is no good for you

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    I've got the standard original 17G booster and master cylinder still so I will check that. Though from memory the master cylinder is very different and has an external shuttle valve bolted to the side of the master cylinder.
    I thought I may have had some strange braking combo due to my virage being a 78. For reference, my master looks like this:
    R17/Virage Master Cylinder Conundrum-s-l1600.jpg

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Like this? (The 17ts booster and cylinder I think I have..)

    R17/Virage Master Cylinder Conundrum-img_20180103_190510695.jpg

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
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    Yes Bowies looks about right.

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    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    3006882, your current Virage booster looks like that one you posted?

    Cue Simon to tell us if that was common or not.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Like this? (The 17ts booster and cylinder I think I have..)

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20180103_190510695.jpg 
Views:	56 
Size:	91.7 KB 
ID:	105853
    That one looks like the single 15TS/17TL booster, rather than the double 17TS/G unit.

    The 17TS master cylinder has Lockheed 311409 cast into the body, with the pistons retained by roll pins rather than a bolt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Like this? (The 17ts booster and cylinder I think I have..)

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20180103_190510695.jpg 
Views:	56 
Size:	91.7 KB 
ID:	105853
    Yep TL. I just had all mine recond. And I know the look of TL type straight up. Not TS or G. Still Bowie no problem though. Good units if not shagged like mine was. Some pics of the master and booster would help maybe 3006882?
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    <thread hijack> Cheers for clarifying all. </thread hijack>

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
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    You are also going to run into another problem putting an R17 master cylinder onto a virage.

    The R17 master cylinder has UNF threads and the Virage master cylinder has metric threads, also the flares are different on the brake lines.

    You are going to have to source a complete set of brake lines as well to do this upgrade.
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    Regards Col

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    May be the phase two R17G had later master cylinders with the correct Virage style bits but the caliper end would also need to be changed. Phase 2 never came to Australia but perhaps available on ebay etc. Simon what about the very last Phase 1's that came here? What did they have? They had later fuel fillers and upholstery, so what else?

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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    You are also going to run into another problem putting an R17 master cylinder onto a virage.

    The R17 master cylinder has UNF threads and the Virage master cylinder has metric threads, also the flares are different on the brake lines.

    You are going to have to source a complete set of brake lines as well to do this upgrade.
    That is easily solved. UNF threaded fittings seem a lot easier to source around, and any brake shop will cut and re-flare your pipes after they replaced the fittings.
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    Sorry for the attempted hijack here.

    I'm have a few issues here, too.

    I bought a master cylinder for my R17TL but its not the same as the one in there now.

    Note that the new one has a threaded hole that accepts a bolt - it does not have a hole at the bottom through to the bore. It looks very much like the example shown in Bowie's pics above. In his image a bolt using this hole secures the distribution block.

    Note from the pictures below of my vehicle that in the same position as the bolt hole a brake line enters the cylinder.

    Any thoughts?



    R17/Virage Master Cylinder Conundrum-img_3849.jpgR17/Virage Master Cylinder Conundrum-img_3853.jpg

    R17/Virage Master Cylinder Conundrum-img_3854.jpgR17/Virage Master Cylinder Conundrum-img_3855.jpg

    (Last photo auto rotates, I cant do much about this.)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R17/Virage Master Cylinder Conundrum-img_3855-2-.jpg  
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    That is easily solved. UNF threaded fittings seem a lot easier to source around, and any brake shop will cut and re-flare your pipes after they replaced the fittings.
    Yes it is easily fixed, was just pointing out that it is not just a quick easy swap over.
    Regards Col

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    Brakquip make a huge range of adapters, and finding something ex stock should not be an issue.

    So cutting the tube, replacing the nut, and re-flaring should be unnecessary .
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    I was hoping to find a bolt in solution, so I'm thinking an R20 booster may be the solution, but they're appearing hard to come by.
    Having to weld and re-drill the mounting holes on the column strikes me as far less work than re-running and flaring all the lines, but that's my opinion before I attempt either option.
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  18. #18
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3006882 View Post
    I was hoping to find a bolt in solution, so I'm thinking an R20 booster may be the solution, but they're appearing hard to come by.
    Having to weld and re-drill the mounting holes on the column strikes me as far less work than re-running and flaring all the lines, but that's my opinion before I attempt either option.
    If you can get hold of an earlier R12 (pre 1978) you can then remove all the brake lines and have your bolt/clip in solution.
    Regards Col

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    Here are the master cylinder part numbers from the1972 R17 parts catalogue. Hope the resolution is high enough.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R17/Virage Master Cylinder Conundrum-1525952485262.jpg  
    Last edited by 21571; 10th May 2018 at 09:59 PM.

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