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  1. #26
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    oh you reminded me!

    I stumbled upon this link the other day which is a link to Vizards "How to Port & Flow Test Cylinder Heads"

    https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...KzxMP5KMsRx9l3

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    Enjoy everyone
    Last edited by bowie; 14th February 2018 at 07:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Bowie, get yourself a copy of David Vizard's book on heads and stuff.

    In the late 1950s and early 1960s, Laurie Oxenford had a good business doing 'Oxenford Conversions', particularly for Simca Arondes but also for Dauphines and lots of other cars.
    He claimed an increase from 48hp to 65 hp for a Simca Aronde. His process involved porting and polishing, head shave, a bit more spark advance and a few other minor tweeks. His claimed increases were probably a bit optimistic, but it did work fairly well!
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  3. #28
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    There are two easily found:

    https://www.amazon.com/Theory-Practi.../dp/0851130666

    Theory and Practice of Cylinder Head Modification (The MRP speedsport series) [David Vizard] on Amazon.com.

    AND

    David Vizard's How to Port & Flow Test Cylinder Heads (S-A Design ...
    https://www.amazon.com/David-Vizards.../dp/1934709646

    I quote: "It takes a craftsman's touch to shape the surfaces of the head for the optimal flow characteristics and the best performance. Porting demands the right tools, skills, and application of knowledge. Few other engine builders have the same level of knowledge and skill porting engine heads as David Vizard."

    Right out of my league but they look really interesting.

    Cheers
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    This looks good- focus on simplicity and basic principles

    Already well into it ( Reg, the 4CV, needs all the help he can get )

    Many thanks

    Andrew

    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    oh you reminded me!

    I stumbled upon this link the other day which is a link to Vizards "How to Port & Flow Test Cylinder Heads"

    https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...KzxMP5KMsRx9l3

    Enjoy everyone

  5. #30
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Well having worked out what material can be re-leaved, (I used a combo of the oil and paper and blowing talc) i marked it up and started sanding away.

    The unmolested side,
    Smoothing a 12 Ts Inleft Manifold?-img_20180214_210220017.jpg

    The molested side,
    Smoothing a 12 Ts Inleft Manifold?-img_20180214_210226182.jpg

    already looks faster

    You can see the scratch mark on the side indicating there is still a bit more to go. I'm going to focus on the inside of the runner and try to smooth that corner out as much as I can without poking out the other-side, then open it up probably a 1~mm or so before I start on the head. And don't worry about the scratch marks on the surface, I'll get that planned along with the head.

    It actually is smoother then it looks, but it can still be smoothed over with a fine metal spinning disk. I'll do some more reading before I debate if it's worth just removing the port separators aka like some Perrie manifolds did.

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    "bowie"
    You are getting the idea. Now try and get the ports to flow (blend), pinch ideas from the pages you read. I read American Hot Rod and Drag articles, from the '70s and '80, on working with motors. They used to explain flow (blending) very well. Now people only want to sell their product so there is far less information given.

    Go For It ....... !!!

    Ray
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    Quote Originally Posted by geckoeng View Post
    "bowie"
    You are getting the idea. Now try and get the ports to flow (blend), pinch ideas from the pages you read. I read American Hot Rod and Drag articles, from the '70s and '80, on working with motors. They used to explain flow (blending) very well. Now people only want to sell their product so there is far less information given. Go For It ....... !!! Ray
    Must have a chat Ray, regarding 32DIS carbies and those right angled manifolds......
    JohnW

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    Any time John .......... !!!!!!
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    Be careful with the mouth of the manifold Bowie. You don't want to create a step between manifold and head such that the flow bangs into it (large on the manifold side). The other way around it's fine (head larger than manifold). Even if there is a negative step on part of the joint it is still detrimental, so make sure you either locate the manifold to the head perfectly so it can't go in any other position, or leave the manifold slightly smaller so you have a positive step all the way around no matter how much the manifold can wiggle around.

    Read Vizard's book and then on to carbies and read John Passini's book.
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  10. #35
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    Yes I'm gong to smooth out the other-side of the manifold, then start on the inlet ports on the head, I'll take about 2mm off, and then re measure everything once more again.

    There is a surprising amount of meat here actually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Yes I'm gong to smooth out the other-side of the manifold, then start on the inlet ports on the head, I'll take about 2mm off, and then re measure everything once more again.

    There is a surprising amount of meat here actually.
    A tool tip…Get a small flapper tool, epoxy (or just crimp) it into a push bike brake cable outer, and use this in a drill.
    You can then push/pull this through your pipe over and over and it will naturally seek out the high points and leave the troughs untouched.

    Those brake cable outers make great low stress rotary tool bit extensions.

    Jo
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  12. #37
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    There are ready made flexible cable extensions that will take a flapper wheel. The trick is to find a flapper wheel of the right diameter, because you need it to contact all the way around its circumference, otherwise it will skip around like crazy.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  13. #38
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    Well slow progress, I took the interior lump out of the other runner to match them up, and started blending in the plenum. I hit everything with a shiny disc so I could clearly see how good/bad it's looking.

    Smoothing a 12 Ts Inleft Manifold?-left.jpg
    Smoothing a 12 Ts Inleft Manifold?-right.jpg

    I still have to focus on the inside of the runners and make that line as straight as I dare. It's probably hard to see, just where the runner starts to bend, there is a cylinder about 3x3mm just hanging out in the middle there, yeah it's going.

    Smoothing a 12 Ts Inleft Manifold?-bowl.jpg
    Smoothing a 12 Ts Inleft Manifold?-dig.jpg
    Smoothing a 12 Ts Inleft Manifold?-dig2.jpg

    The plenum is really really thick. I suppose it was thick to act as a pseudo heat shield? Anyone one could cut 5mm into the floor without any problem. I'm going to blend everything into the floor of the runner, and try to keep a little bit of a ramp in the middle as Renault did before me. I'm also going to focus on the inside edges and blend that corner out as much as I can, Everyone loves straight lines.

    Slow work, but strangely rewarding. This is also great practice before I go near the head

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  14. #39
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    Well each runner (where it met the head) was previously 25~mm they are now sitting at 30mm

    This is probably enough for the moment,

    I've spend a great deal of time taking material from the floor, walls and roof so it's looking fairly consistent. I feel like there is still more to do to take the corner out of the runner, I'm still worried about blowing out the side and ruining everything.

    Also, talk to me about that coolant chamber that runs via the inlet manifold. This is to assist with cold starting and not in any effort to keep the intake temps down right?

    This is fun

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    The coolant passages in the manifold are there to keep the mixture vapourised when it is cold outside. I have used a small inline tap for warm race days, to keep the inlet air as cool as possible. The tap also needs to control the coolant through the heater plate under the carb. But when using the car on the street, in particular at night, the manifold needs to be warm to stop icing of the mixture, in particular the carb itself.
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    I thought that coolant flow was to avoid icing up, i.e. heating things up at high airflows.
    JohnW

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    It'll be interesting to see how it goes. I would have though enlarging the volume of the manifold, with everything else stock, wouldn't work. The mixture once through the carby slows down when it gets to the enlarged manifold, excessive fuel consumption and less go.

    I found matching the ports, and a balance (although they seemed good from the factory according to the place that did the balancing) was a decent compromise. The old 1289s just seemed to sing!
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  18. #43
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    I plan to eventually fit a silly cam, silly cam springs, and valves as big as suitable. This is just all the easy prep before hand.

    But really, after all this it's not going to me much more then a matching port job really.

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  19. #44
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    And I would have thought the proximity of the exhaust manifold would heat things greatly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    And I would have thought the proximity of the exhaust manifold would heat things greatly.
    Latent heat of vapourisation of petrol..... It wasn't unknown for R12s or R16s to stop on fast runs in cool weather due to icing up of the carby throat. Or so I heard back then.
    JohnW

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  21. #46
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    Ah true. So what fuel is a vapoiur at 23~ degrees. I suppose on cold mornings with a fast clip there would be enough air flow to bring that down despite the exhaust manifolds location.

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  22. #47
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    Smoothing a 12 Ts Inleft Manifold?-1519044862217.jpgSmoothing a 12 Ts Inleft Manifold?-1519044870324.jpg
    These are the corners worth smoothing. Look! Daylight

    Smoothing a 12 Ts Inleft Manifold?-1519044907457.jpg
    The plenum had the runner moulds removed, hot rod mags I've read (mostly about the straight 6 Holden Red engine actually, perhaps simply more was written about it) indicates free plenum volume is a good thing. It's actually still a little tapered there, the flash hides that.

    Smoothing a 12 Ts Inleft Manifold?-1519045025641.jpg
    And the beginning of smoothing out / widening the track from the Webber to match the material removed from the rest of the runners.

    I haven't actually sat the 32/36 gasket on it to see what overlap in the airstream (if any) is there to remove. Added to the list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Latent heat of vapourisation of petrol..... It wasn't unknown for R12s or R16s to stop on fast runs in cool weather due to icing up of the carby throat. Or so I heard back then.
    Hence the euro air ducting that starts at the exhaust manifolds that you see in the parts manuals and some photos I've seen on 12/17's in Europe. You would need warm air for the natural aspirated engines of the time in those conditions. Not so for Perth though. Almost no choke
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    Only in the Snowy Mountains and parts of Tassie would you need a warm air duct to the air filter. And when running it hard in events, cold air is most preferable.

    As it is a daily driver, it needs to cope with general conditions first, and then be adaptive to racing conditions. Until it becomes a full time park in the workshop, race car.

    Ray
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  25. #50
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    Well one grinding wheel down, it's starting to take shape.

    Smoothing a 12 Ts Inleft Manifold?-img_20180224_162733101.jpg
    Smoothing a 12 Ts Inleft Manifold?-img_20180224_165035431.jpg

    There is a lot of angles around the pushrod on the inside of the siamese that smoothed out nicely. I still have a lot of room to cut the floor and far wall, but I think I might just balance out the other inlet ports before I get to aggressive.
    Not going near the inside of the combustion chamber at the moment, (haven't read that far) and I'm just really trying to straighten out the air flow into the valve as much as possible, whilst increasing the volume.

    You can get an idea of the floor by the light in the second image, you can see the slightly larger area taking shape before the valve on the right, this is what I'm trying to enlarge

    Oh for those interested, standard port is 29mm x 29mm I'm aiming for a 31mm at most on the head, and 30.5mm~ on the intake manifold.. just ensuring a bit of blunder room really.

    I've managed to do all this with a big(ish) rotating stone on a dremel. Spraying it with WD40 every now and then it doesn't stick and is gong ok.

    Budget 1.5~hr per port with a small powered tool.
    Last edited by bowie; 24th February 2018 at 09:57 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

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