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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts garyk's Avatar
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    Default Plundering Renault Experts

    A friend currently drives a Citroen Xsara 2.0 4 door auto.

    Asks "which Renault model" might be a good replacement?

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    - 4 doors, auto.
    - not too big (mostly one person+ dog)
    - reasonably comfy + economical
    - reliable, service, etc
    - doesn't have to be a Great Performer, mainly around town.

    I should add that she drives rather slowly... and takes not-too-much care of her cars
    BUT will not drive a Kia, etc ... and has owned DS CX + Xantia.

    Budget: Circa $5k.
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  2. #2
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    A pity that she rules out most of the cars that are available & thereby a good number that are better on any parameter one cares to name (except badge possession) than any current Citroen or Renault.

    However, my Renault suggestion would be the Captur. It seems to best satisfy every criterion you cite (except, I suggest, reliability).

    One merit that it has is a really versatile interior. Worth a visit to a dealer perhaps?

    Maybe an early second hand one would not exceed the budget too much but she'd have to be willing to stretch it up a bit.

    The trouble is that I suspect that $5k of second hand Renault would not be overly wise for someone who is seemingly inclined to neglect it. Anyway, my choice within a strict budget would be as low kms a Megane (of whatever series) as she can get. Saloons are rarer than hatches but more unwanted & thus, I suggest, cheaper.

    cheers! Peter
    Last edited by 4cvg; 25th January 2018 at 03:05 AM.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Or for the same money you could suggest she gets an R19 auto, which ticks all the required boxes. In fact for that money she would probably get 10 of them if there's that many left in Oz. Drive one until it craps itself, then throw away the keys (or leave them in the ignition) and move on to the next one. Would probably see her into the next life.
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    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    $5K would put it into a Megane or a Clio but the words reliable and auto might be mutually exclusive as this money would probably put you in the DP0 gearbox arena. The later autos with (I think) Jatco boxes are okay.
    You won't get a Captur for $5k, they haven't been around long enough, unless it's a write-off that needs rebuilding.
    You probably will need to go higher than $5K
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    $5K puts you into a Scenic, of which quite a few are about and they seem pretty reliable. An old, automatic Scenic? Well, I wouldn't unless it had already gone wrong and been fixed properly or had a known, gentle and well-looked after history.

    I was looking gently into a similar requirement just last week. Some extremely high mileage cars are around for that money and there's not much I'd buy for myself! I'm told you can't kill a Corolla with an axe but haven't tried.

    Higher than $5K might be better spending. You are buying what might be left of the car's life after all.
    JohnW

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    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Sacrilege !!!!!

    A good Gets or Echo/Yaris, will last longer than the dog.

    Ray
    Ray geckoeng

    Think Old, But Run Modern !!

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    5k will only get old AL4 auto Renaults.

    Enough said!

    However 9 - 10k will get a VERY nice 2010 - 13ish auto Fluence or Megane with the 2L petrol motor. No timing belt costs (as has a chain) AND a good CVT (courtesy Nissan). Personally find these very nice drives (if you like autos) and definitely nicer than the 1.2L turbo/EDC autos in the later ones.

    Bought one of each for my (then) partner's family a couple of years ago: they love them and have had no issues.
    Cheers
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    Keep in mind with a circa $5K Renault, it will likely have a timing belt that will cost in the order of 20% of the cost of the car to replace, similar with brakes (pads and discs) and duff A/C. And a dud Automatic trans turns you upside down very quickly. Make sure you get a vehicle on "your" side of the maintenance cost bell curve.

    All cars cost money, and can cost similar amounts - regardless of marque. However other marques, such as Mazda or Toyota, also have strength in numbers both in economies of scale of parts selections and specialist or franchise dealer service choices.

    When considering a car for someone who doesn't look after cars, the promptness of resolving a car problem when things go pear-shaped, I would think is more important than the badge on the car.
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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Except, in the last twenty five years if you have owned from new a few cars that have happily gone past the 10 YO interval with bugger all problems. Daewoo Leganza manual, Scenic 4x4, Megane Soft top 1600 manual and Koleos 4x4 auto have all done that. There must be more out there......but maybe 10 years is the limit?
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Except, in the last twenty five years if you have owned from new a few cars that have happily gone past the 10 YO interval with bugger all problems. Daewoo Leganza manual, Scenic 4x4, Megane Soft top 1600 manual and Koleos 4x4 auto have all done that. There must be more out there......but maybe 10 years is the limit?
    Witnessed by the number of seemingly "good" condition cars at all DIY wreckers. Many with 150-200 k on the clock.

    Car maintenance, especially with the proprietary computer diagnostic systems is an expensive proposition. And with the low price of new cars the incentive for repairs is reduced.

    Not to mention the "throw away" mindset of consumers.
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    Doesn't look after her car? ...go a Toyota or Hyundai.

    My 2 cents

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  12. #12
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    No mater what car make, if you don't service it it won't last.

    Even my Toyota (2000my)has now got 220,000km but it's beginning to show a little blue smoke after trailing throttle and sometimes on start up. Also using a bit of oil but the oil used is rather thin 5-30.
    Over it's life i had to replace 2 injectors, one O2 sensor and one MAF sensor. Injectors 2nd hand for about $80 vs $240 from dealer and the others from internet new and quite cheap.
    Oh, and the electric power steering pump died @ 160,000km. A $120.- rewind and commutator fixed it.
    Did not bother with having it diagnosed with an OBD at Toyota - too much hassle. Booking in, waiting....

    The Renault 19's engines were probably a little bit better wear wise at that distance but don't mention the electrics.
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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts driven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyk View Post
    A friend currently drives a Citroen Xsara 2.0 4 door auto.

    Asks "which Renault model" might be a good replacement?

    - doesn't have to be a Great Performer, mainly around town.

    Budget: Circa $5k.
    There are no Renault models suitable for you at all

    They are all great performers

  14. #14
    COL
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    Here are 20 Renaults for sale in NSW

    https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/res...srcx=makemodel

    Don't for get that cars in this price range are at the end of their life and due diligence is needed when picking one that not only suits your needs but will be reliable. You will need to check things like the service history if it has any and especially timing belts. This applies no matter what the badge is on the front of the car.

    There are bargains out there to be had. I bought myself a 2002 Renault Laguna Privilege LX with 110,000 Km on the odometer. There was no proof that the timing belt was changed. The asking price was $4000. I walked away as it was to dear. Sometime later the car appeared on Ebay, I bought it for $1685.

    I change the timing belt, fixed the oil leaks and few electrical gremlins and got a car that owed me $3000 and a few weekends work.

    I have had this car now for 2 years and have not had any problems. I have a very comfy car with lots of toys for the price of a Hyundai or a Kia.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1995 Renault Laguna V6
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

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  15. #15
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Here are 20 Renaults for sale in NSW

    https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/res...srcx=makemodel

    Don't for get that cars in this price range are at the end of their life and due diligence is needed when picking one that not only suits your needs but will be reliable. You will need to check things like the service history if it has any and especially timing belts. This applies no matter what the badge is on the front of the car.

    There are bargains out there to be had. I bought myself a 2002 Renault Laguna Privilege LX with 110,000 Km on the odometer. There was no proof that the timing belt was changed. The asking price was $4000. I walked away as it was to dear. Sometime later the car appeared on Ebay, I bought it for $1685.

    I change the timing belt, fixed the oil leaks and few electrical gremlins and got a car that owed me $3000 and a few weekends work.

    I have had this car now for 2 years and have not had any problems. I have a very comfy car with lots of toys for the price of a Hyundai or a Kia.
    But you have the interest, skills and desire to sort the car out.

    And had a certain amount of luck with the car you purchased.

    Most people would be attracted to a new car and 5 or seven year warranty.

    And having bought a new car myself a few years ago , it is an attractive proposition for those who are losing interest in climbing under cars and prefer to drive it instead.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  16. #16
    1000+ Posts garyk's Avatar
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    Thanks troops.

    Here is the present status.
    She likes the Captur, but we are talking $20k.

    No Renaults under $5k are really suitable.
    Lagunas abound, not much else.

    She is quite abhorrent of Japanese cars, albeit that:

    a) I agree that some would suit, and
    b) that generically very inexpensive "good" Japanese cars are somewhat of a contradiction.

    The happy/sad thing about Frenchies is how good they are at the price point.
    She has driven Citroens exclusively for about 30 years! (I can beat that)....

    I think the Renault thing may have passed ...

    So, I reckon a C4 is the winner here.
    Plenty up to $5k, just trying to avoid AL4s.

    Prolly a 1.6HDi.

    Initial price is relevant ... but, say, add a new timing belt + water pump, a set of tyres, rego, and you have about a $1500 - $2000 "give or take" on the price. So it comes down to car and its history.

    If anyone has good C4 intel, happy to hear.
    I have one in mind, owner says that the AL4 solenoids were replaced, but it still thumps occasionally, his mechanic says "it will be fine and not affect the car..." I'd appreciate your views on that!

    Personally I like the 2.0HDi 6 speed, a bit grunty for her city commuting, and a bit rare.
    Last edited by garyk; 26th January 2018 at 01:13 PM.
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  17. #17
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    But you have the interest, skills and desire to sort the car out.

    And had a certain amount of luck with the car you purchased.

    Most people would be attracted to a new car and 5 or seven year warranty.

    And having bought a new car myself a few years ago , it is an attractive proposition for those who are losing interest in climbing under cars and prefer to drive it instead.
    I do it this way purely for financial reasons, the most expensive part of owning a modern car is depreciation so I will probably never own a new car.

    I look at this way how many hours I have to work to own this car (cost of car divided by my hourly rate) then look for a bargain car that that has problems that I can fix. So for the effort of three weeks work (120 hours) I can buy and fix this car that will probably last me about 5 years. If I buy a new car I will have to work for 6 months to buy it.

    My last 2 cars where bought new by doctors and everyone knows that these people can afford the depreciation.

    My skills were learnt at the Backyard Automotive College through need because I was poor apprentice with just enough money to buy a car that someone had discarded due to its problems.
    lozenge, Sunroof and Kenfuego like this.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1995 Renault Laguna V6
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Fair enough Col, that is a perfectly valid viewpoint.

    Some of us have ABNs and this can make purchasing a new car more attractive.
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyk View Post

    [...]

    b) that generically very inexpensive "good" Japanese cars are somewhat of a contradiction.

    [...]

    Not sure what you mean there.

    Having looked around for a car at the same price in the recent past I couldn't help but notice the (relative) abundance of Toyota Prius of 2005-ish onwards vintage especially in the eastern states.

    And if you think they're not good, just ask a taxi driver.

    Your requirements stated definitely no jap cars, otherwise at that price point and with that list I would have recommended the Prius hands down.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    On the older Prius (>12 years) beware of battery condition.

    Most often it's not economical to replace them with new.

    However, brave souls, have been known to disassemble the pack and replace faulty individual batteries, with replacements sourced from wreckers.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  21. #21
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    https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/minc...ack/1169957404

    So, here's about as good as one would get for a Captur.

    Sydney-based, 2014, 40k kms, $14k & from a dealer - so some negotiation possible? It is a manual but it shows that Captur does not mean $20k.

    cheers! Peter

  22. #22
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    "My last 2 cars where bought new by doctors and everyone knows that these people can afford the depreciation".

    They didn't have to afford the depreciation. You and I paid for it with our hard earned - they tax deducted it, together with just about every other expense.

    Andrew
    COL likes this.

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts garyk's Avatar
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    The potential buyer has her quirks ... and I will be going along with these.

    ATM, the most likely suspect is the C4 1.6 HDi
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    sold ..... D Special 1974 ... to fellow Tassie AFer.
    sold ..... Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    sold .....GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    sold .... 1986 2CV6

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23 1973 Pallas
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    On the older Prius (>12 years) beware of battery condition.

    Most often it's not economical to replace them with new.

    However, brave souls, have been known to disassemble the pack and replace faulty individual batteries, with replacements sourced from wreckers.

    True. After 12 years, I guess you could consider the battery "consumable" and count every kilometre as profit.

    A new battery however is now what 3k or so? I think you get the money back in petrol in the first year of ownership if you're doing about 50k a day with a lot of city driving.

    There is however a second hand market for batteries now and indeed, some people just replace individual cells. Not that big a deal if we are to believe the interwebs.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  25. #25
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    The Prius still uses fuel. About 4ltres/100k's. Not so cheap when you add in batteries. Unless you do lots of k's like taxi's do.

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