R12 1.4 (r1179?)
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Thread: R12 1.4 (r1179?)

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! R8 Dream's Avatar
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    Default R12 1.4 (r1179?)

    I am after the specifications of the flywheel from a R12 1.4 (Virage?) engine.

    I think the model number is a R1179?

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    Does someone have the page from the manual that gives these specs?

    Angelo

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    g'day Angelo, don't suppose you can help me with driveshafts for an R12 1.4 R1179?
    for any others reading this thread:
    a lovely lady in Boonah has a 1978 R12 she bought new in 1976 - she is having problems sourcing driveshafts for it and it would break her heart if she had to take it off the road - the rest of the car is as new unmolested condition, canary yellow
    looking forward to any advice on this
    regards
    BP

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! R8 Dream's Avatar
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    Sorry BP, donít have any R12 parts you are after. I am using A late R12 flywheel on my R5 motor in my R8 (a bit of a Frankenstein &#128513

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    I checked my manuals, but they don’t cover the 1.4 engine
    KB


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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Angelo,

    Is this to do with a slipping clutch?

    Frans
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    Yes Frans
    I have the clutch assy and flywheel out of the car want to check some tolerances, and give it to someone to reface correctly.
    I believe that I have fitted R12 1.4 flywheel (7 bolts) and matching Valeo (266185) clutch assy.
    The slipping was not happening under 'normal' driving, but under sudden hard acceleration, it was definitely noticeable.
    I have done less than 1000km.
    Angelo

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    I understand that the 18TL and Fuego TL (1397cc eng) also use the same flywheel set up (unless I am mistaken?) so specs from these car manuals should also work.

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    From the factory manual.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R12 1.4 (r1179?)-dsc00665.jpg  
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    Some pics of what I found. It doesn't look healthy after such a short time in the car.

    R12 1.4 (r1179?)-img_6319.jpgR12 1.4 (r1179?)-img_6320.jpgR12 1.4 (r1179?)-img_6321.jpgR12 1.4 (r1179?)-img_6322.jpgR12 1.4 (r1179?)-img_6323.jpg

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    From the factory manual.
    Many thanks Simon!

    Angelo

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Angelo,

    Here are some photos and numbers that you can take with you as alternatives. That info from Simon is all you need for the FW but what worries me is that yours are no different to that info. So theoretically nothing should be wrong.

    What I'm saying now is from my own experience. During my first trip around the block in the race car (some 8 or 9 years ago) I had a slipping clutch changing from 2nd to 3rd and then total slip from 3rd to 4th. I bought a Peugeot 106R pressure plate because it was an uprated one for those Pugs. When I took the motor out for inspection it all looked good. At the time I couldn't remember the supplier so I went to my regular shop and he had a R5 pressure plate on the shelf that we compared. A huge difference!!much thicker housing and much thicker spring plate. Having no choice I took the R5 one and that is the one still in the car today. I have changed friction plates but not pressure plates. The part no. of the stuff in the race car at the moment is as follows: 263927/182419 & 186058ER1/19159.
    How that number is put together, I don't know.

    In the photos you can see a std FW and that is the same as in Simon's specs. I used it as a sample to give to my guy when he lightened the other one. Then you can see a model no. but that is the pressure plate that is on the dry sump engine and it looks the same but seems to be a different part number. Then there is a picture of my first friction plate the I replaced after around 4 years racing, a R5 plate as well and neither of them were modified. All stock items.



    Here you can see that it is the same as in Simon's specs.



    This is on the dry sump engine and not raced yet.



    This is old with 4 or 5 years of racing. I noted a number on there you might need.



    I hope that this will bring light to your issue.

    Regards, Frans.
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  12. #12
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    I thought the number rang a bell, 263927 is effectively a "standard" 180 diameter clutch.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R12 1.4 (r1179?)-dsc00666.jpg   R12 1.4 (r1179?)-dsc00668.jpg  
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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Well documented Simon, Does the tick next to R5 mean something or is it just a mark?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    Well documented Simon, Does the tick next to R5 mean something or is it just a mark?
    I'm thinking it may be misplaced from the 12, indicating it was a late 12 clutch. As it was the only model that would have used that particular clutch in Australia.
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    Fellow Frogger! R8 Dream's Avatar
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    Thanks Frans, Simon
    I am comfortable I was on the right track as the same parts were used across a number of different models, but as Simon points out the only one really available in Aust was the R12 1.4.
    The various models all use the same part numbers.


    R12 1.4 (r1179?)-valeo-r12-1.4-clutch-kit.pngR12 1.4 (r1179?)-valeo-r5-alpine-1.4-clutch-kit.pngR12 1.4 (r1179?)-valeo-r18-1.4-clutch-kit.png


    This should be enough for me to sort this out and will let all know how I go in a few weeks.
    I again really appreciate your collective help.
    Cheers
    Angelo

  16. #16
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    Good luck with it Angelo.
    JohnW

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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Angelo,

    I have more info on a slipping clutch but only a decent clutch workshop has the right equipment for the test, unless you can do some rig with you drill press?

    A too thin friction plate can slip and a too thick one can slip as well. To explain: an opened empty can of Coke. If you press it in the middle it goes click and then you need little pressure to hold it there. When you release it slightly, it bounces back with such a force that you cannot stop it in the middle and it pushes your finger out of its way.

    If your pressure plate which has the same principle dome springplate is pushed in with the pedal it goes in the same as the Coke can. When you release the pedal it comes back but where the power is the strongest, that is where the friction plate should stop it and that is where the pressure is the highest.

    A test you can do to see what I mean is to put the pressure plate down on the floor and the thrust bearing on the fingers. Steady your self by holding on to something and stand on the release bearing. If you are heavy enough or the plate is weak enough you will be able to pop it in and keep it in. By lifting your self a little the release bearing will pop out again and lift you up. You might want to test it with a long lever if you can't do it with your weight. That halfway mark where it overcomes your artificial pressure is where you want the friction plate to be so that you have the max clamping force.

    If the plate is too thick it will clamp where the fingers are deep in and there is not a lot of pressure, too thin the fingers will be too far out with low pressure as well.

    A good shop can fit you whole assembly, FW, Press plate, clutch plate in a test rig with gauges and check where the release is and where the high pressure is. Then you will know that the pressure in the clamped position is high enough and hasn't gone over the dished spring plate's equilibrium.

    If that is all good then you must lower your horse power because you have too much!!

    Frans
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  18. #18
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    Default Clutch

    Frans
    I am off to the brake and clutch specialist tomorrow so I am sure will work it all out.
    I will definitely let you know how I go.
    Angelo

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    g'day Simon, can you please post manual pages for the R12 1.4 driveshafts?

    cheers

    BP

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by R8 Dream View Post
    Frans
    I am off to the brake and clutch specialist tomorrow so I am sure will work it all out.
    I will definitely let you know how I go.
    Angelo
    Anyway picked up my new clutch kit today from BGT Brake and Clutch in Dandenong.

    They tested the old Valeo version and said the pressure plate was down on what it should be and recommend that i use a HD kit from LUK (apparently German made).

    When comparing the two units I can definitely see that the LUK pressure plate appears to be a little more robust than the Valeo unit.

    I have included a few pics for everyone to see.

    I will fit it this weekend and go for a drive (easy of course to bed it in) and will report back on how I go and see if the slipping has gone.

    I took the opportunity to reface the flywheel and lighten it a bit as well.

    Angelo

    R12 1.4 (r1179?)-img_6384.jpgR12 1.4 (r1179?)-img_6382.jpgR12 1.4 (r1179?)-img_6381.jpgR12 1.4 (r1179?)-img_6380.jpgR12 1.4 (r1179?)-img_6379.jpg
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  21. #21
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    Well fitted the new LUK clutch kit and put the engine back in last weekend and took it for a test drive.
    i must say that the gears changed much smoother and under (mild) power off no slipping.
    Of course I will be running it it in gently for a 100 Kay's or so, but no dramas so far.
    Angelo
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