Eye Watering prices R8
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Thread: Eye Watering prices R8

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts driven's Avatar
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    Default Eye Watering prices R8

    I was amazed Plus $35,000

    https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/list/36/gordini/

    https://www.tradeuniquecars.com.au/d...nault-8-489090

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    Should have kept mine from 40 years ago

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Ha.

    And it looks like you have a choice of either a top of the line 8G or a bottom of the line Dacia!

    Still the 8G seems a little bit cheaper than what we see around here.

    I am surprised however at that 12G, which seems to be chasing the 8G price.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    I would not call those prices eye watering. Try restoring one and see how much money you spend and then add up the hours, that will make your eyes water !
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Yeah, but restoration cost is not a good indicator of value.

    Heck, even manufacturing cost is not an indicator of value. Just think of the crappiest car you can remember and see what it cost when new.

    Or look at the Veyron.

    The reality was best captured by James May when he compared the car with the horse. Before the car everybody had a horse because that was the transport. After the car, the horse became a hobby. Hobbies are a luxury, hence expensive.

    That is the way of the modern car as well. Most of us drive appliances but long for a real car. Well, as these become rarer they become expensive. I would hazard a guess when we'll have driverless cars, it will be the cost of a driver licence that will rule out driving a "driver car" not the cost of the car itself (mind you, they won't be coming down in price).

    James May actually said the car has liberated the horse from endless exhausting chores and allowed it to do other more pleasurable things (I think he meant for a horse, but he listed things obviously more pleasurable for humans - not sure how much a horse likes running and jumping and so on) but the truth is most horses were liberated to go to the glue factory. Similarly he predicted autonomous cars will liberate The Car from drudgery and allow it to pursue higher goals (enjoyment of various flavours) but my prediction is it will follow the horse in the same way he didn't mention, i.e. most will go to scrap and the handful left will become a real luxury, inaccessible for most of us)

    The autonomous car is obviously coming, make no mistake about it. In fact it is here already. The last hurdle is not technological but legislative. The human is pushed further and further away from controlling the car into following instructions, becoming a helpless ignorant passenger in their own car and relinquishing more and more of the freedom they bought the car for in the first place (wanna bet at some point you will have to follow prescribed routes?).

    That is what you pay for.

    That is, if you're not one of those people obsessed with possession rather than enjoyment. You will have to beat those people as well in the competition for securing a car you want to enjoy.

    My suggestion is find a cheap car you really enjoy driving, buy that, enjoy it and give up searching the internet to see what others value.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    I think "My suggestion is find a cheap car you really enjoy driving, buy that, enjoy it ...." will do me. That's pretty much what we've done with the two Renaults, perhaps just by keeping them forever. Great numbers of "enjoyment units per dollar", that is for sure! The Citroen is "..buy that, enjoy it..." for sure, but not exactly cheap!! Cheap to buy perhaps.......

    As an aside, I don't know why "we" on here are from time to time down on decent prices for Renaults. The R8 Gordini is quite an iconic car, remarkable in its day. In fact, the bog standard R8, with disc brakes, sealed cooling system etc was quite something and very driveable 50 years later. And they are rare by the standards of common but expensive Porsches.

    Anyway, I guess they are worth what someone will pay and definitely NOT what they cost to restore. Given an R8 Gordini went for nearly $70K recently, values are on the up.

    Ah well...
    Steve K and LeMansTragic like this.
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Yeah, but restoration cost is not a good indicator of value.

    Heck, even manufacturing cost is not an indicator of value. Just think of the crappiest car you can remember and see what it cost when new.

    Or look at the Veyron.

    The reality was best captured by James May when he compared the car with the horse. Before the car everybody had a horse because that was the transport. After the car, the horse became a hobby. Hobbies are a luxury, hence expensive.

    That is the way of the modern car as well. Most of us drive appliances but long for a real car. Well, as these become rarer they become expensive. I would hazard a guess when we'll have driverless cars, it will be the cost of a driver licence that will rule out driving a "driver car" not the cost of the car itself (mind you, they won't be coming down in price).

    James May actually said the car has liberated the horse from endless exhausting chores and allowed it to do other more pleasurable things (I think he meant for a horse, but he listed things obviously more pleasurable for humans - not sure how much a horse likes running and jumping and so on) but the truth is most horses were liberated to go to the glue factory. Similarly he predicted autonomous cars will liberate The Car from drudgery and allow it to pursue higher goals (enjoyment of various flavours) but my prediction is it will follow the horse in the same way he didn't mention, i.e. most will go to scrap and the handful left will become a real luxury, inaccessible for most of us)

    The autonomous car is obviously coming, make no mistake about it. In fact it is here already. The last hurdle is not technological but legislative. The human is pushed further and further away from controlling the car into following instructions, becoming a helpless ignorant passenger in their own car and relinquishing more and more of the freedom they bought the car for in the first place (wanna bet at some point you will have to follow prescribed routes?).

    That is what you pay for.

    That is, if you're not one of those people obsessed with possession rather than enjoyment. You will have to beat those people as well in the competition for securing a car you want to enjoy.

    My suggestion is find a cheap car you really enjoy driving, buy that, enjoy it and give up searching the internet to see what others value.
    I think your right. Another interesting development is 'car sharing' were you buy an autonomous car, park it in a street side car park and lease it out. Mercedes and Link & Co are spending considerable amounts of money in R&D to design cars for this purpose.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using aussiefrogs mobile app

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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Personally !!!!

    I think "eye watering prices" are by people who want something for nothing. They want somebody to spend a lot of time and money building a project car that is sort after. And then want to buy it at ridiculously low prices. If people think they are going to buy well built project cars for less than a second hand Asian hatchback, then they are mistaken. Even if they are built by amateur mechanics in the garage at home. A man still expects a return on his hours.

    An example is R8 Gordinis. Every classic Renault enthusiast would love to have one and drive it to shows, and stand there and say "I have a Renault R8 Gordini". But in Australia there were only 60 released to the public, so they are a very rear car. There have probably been 15 (?) others brought in as private imports. Just recently a fair R8 Gordini rebuild (not restored) sold in Sydney for $70K. That is the price of restoring one, and if you add extras ad another $20-$30K. All of the eye watering bystanders have probably never rebuild a project car lately. And to a decent standard.

    There are those of course that stand on the sidelines and say "OOOoo it is a classic car" and research some prices and think their rust bucket is worth that. Pay your money and take a pick !!!

    My Two Cents Worth !!!!

    Ray
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    Ray geckoeng

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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geckoeng View Post

    [...]

    Every classic Renault enthusiast would love to have one and drive it to shows, and stand there and say "I have a Renault R8 Gordini".

    [...]
    Not quite. I know a few people who would prefer other models.

    As for work and so on, I don't think the price of a restored (or even new) car has anything to do with the effort of restoring (manufacturing) as much as it has to do with the money some people can afford to pay. Pretty much like houses. No house cost 5 mil to build. No car cost 70k to build (maybe if you made it out of gold). If it did, the manufacturer wouldn't be in business long. Even hand built cars don't cost that much and the work involved is not worth that much whichever way you cut it. See my comments above about the return on restored cars. Some cars make the money simply because they catch the attention of people with deep pockets. Some don't. What people pay for is the badge (be it a physical reality or imagined), not the work involved. If you don't believe that, try restoring a Renault 12 to the standard of the best 8G you can imagine. You will spend the same time and effort to achieve the same standard but try then selling it for 70k.

    It's like they say. A car is worth whatever someone is prepared to pay. Some cars find people prepared to pay whatever, some don't. Nothing to do with workmanship and so on. Free market.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 22nd December 2017 at 03:12 PM.
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    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Anyway, I guess they are worth what someone will pay and definitely NOT what they cost to restore. Given an R8 Gordini went for nearly $70K recently, values are on the up.

    Ah well...
    What did I miss?
    Please tell me more about the R8G that sold in Sydney.

    Paul Tomlinson
    R1135 Gordini 1968.
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    Jaguar X Type 2002.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul T View Post
    What did I miss?
    Please tell me more about the R8G that sold in Sydney.
    PM sent
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    JohnW

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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Send it to me too please John.

    I believe Ray referred to how much it costs to do a Gordini restoration, probably based on recent experience I would guess - not what it cost the original manufacturer to build, or did I miss something?
    KB


  12. #12
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    Send it to me too please John.

    I believe Ray referred to how much it costs to do a Gordini restoration, probably based on recent experience I would guess - not what it cost the original manufacturer to build, or did I miss something?
    That was my point above. There is no reason why restoring an 8G would be any more expensive than restoring a Morris Marina. The desirability of the car however means higher potential resale value (if the car is not already in the possession of a person with generously lined pockets), which makes it possible to ask for more for your work.

    As someone noticed some time ago, there's few 8Gs in Oz, but there's even fewer run of the mill R8s. Which one is more expensive to restore, I ask? See the point?

    I think prices are overinflated here simply because people have lots of money and they have already bought the classic staples of car investment so the "market" is looking for left field options. The 8G is a specialist car that "enjoys" (note the inverted commas) the attention of such people today. In Europe prices are much more stable even though the supply is relatively speaking the same (keep in mind the population difference). Well, guess what. The 8G is cheaper over there.

    And this is not the only example. Have a look at the 205GTI here and over there. You are paying twice the price here for a comparatively less desirable car. Such is the market (it would seem). I am obviously not including here the cars that pop up out of some previously undetected time vortex with 5 metres (sic) on the clock (yeah) and sell at auction for hallucinating prices (recent examples went for double the price of a 8G).
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    That was my point above. There is no reason why restoring an 8G would be any more expensive than restoring a Morris Marina. The desirability of the car however means higher potential resale value (if the car is not already in the possession of a person with generously lined pockets), which makes it possible to ask for more for your work.

    As someone noticed some time ago, there's few 8Gs in Oz, but there's even fewer run of the mill R8s. Which one is more expensive to restore, I ask? See the point?

    I think prices are overinflated here simply because people have lots of money and they have already bought the classic staples of car investment so the "market" is looking for left field options. The 8G is a specialist car that "enjoys" (note the inverted commas) the attention of such people today. In Europe prices are much more stable even though the supply is relatively speaking the same (keep in mind the population difference). Well, guess what. The 8G is cheaper over there.

    And this is not the only example. Have a look at the 205GTI here and over there. You are paying twice the price here for a comparatively less desirable car. Such is the market (it would seem). I am obviously not including here the cars that pop up out of some previously undetected time vortex with 5 metres (sic) on the clock (yeah) and sell at auction for hallucinating prices (recent examples went for double the price of a 8G).
    And enthusiasts and the "must have" mentality are responsible for the over pricing.
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  14. #14
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    I wonder whether anyone HAS restored a Marina? I remember both 4- and 6-cylinder versions, unfortunately. Apart from the cylinder head, both are pretty straightforward cars so I take the point. Our 'cheap' approach has included not restoring either car, just maintaining them. Buying someone else's trouble to restore is brave unless the car is very well known, I reckon. Not going there.
    JohnW

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