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  1. #26
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    As far as Armstrong 500 and Bathurst 1000 go, the original A110 was not eligible to run as a sedan in Australia. I believe it had something to do with the back seat or lack of it. Even the GT4 rear seat did not measure up at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I should also point out that in 2016, the lap record had in 19 years, dropped only 10 seconds per lap.....
    10 seconds doesn't sound much, but at the speed McLaughlin was going this year, that converts to about half a kilometre! Bathurst 1000 2017: Practice 5 Results, Scott McLaughlin sets new lap record
    Last edited by turnbull151; 29th November 2017 at 06:55 PM.
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    Barry,
    The comment was meant more for Bustamif but FOSC is the festival of sporting cars - previously an annual historic race meeting that had been held a few times at Bathurst. The organiser passed away recently (as in within the last 6-12 months) so not sure if it will contin.
    BLCC is as Graham mentioned - Bathurst Light Car club. They are the local car club that have club rooms at the top of Conrod straight.

    As the local club, they have council permission to run a number of events each year like hillclimbs, flying and standing 1/5ths etc directly on the mountain. They used to run motorkhanas and khanacrosses in the parks and access roads beside the track but now run them in a quarry somewhere outside of the city.

    It's very rare for them to get permission to close the whole circuit for an event but usually once or twice per month for 10 months of the year or so, they would close part of the circuit to run a hill climb for example. Back when I was an active member, the hillclimb started outside the club rooms and ran up through the Esses up to McPhillamy Park (in an opposite direction to the great race). Flying 1/5ths started in the same spot but ran down Conrod straight with the timing between the two "humps" before the chase. Standing 1/5th started on pit straight (just past the last corner (I can never remember if that's Hell or Murrays corner) and ran along the straight to the end.

    These days they also run some "Mountain straight" hillclimbs which presumably start just before turn 2 and run up in the "correct direction presumably to either mcphillamy or one of the earlier parks - Reid probably but I haven't been to any of these.
    KB


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    Anything less like a sedan would be hard to imagine, maybe an Aerial Atom? Hence my disdain for the idea of an SUV version!



    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    As far as Armstrong 500 and Bathurst 1000 go, the original A110 was not eligible to run as a sedan in Australia. I believe it had something to do with the back seat or lack of it. Even the GT4 rear seat did not measure up at the time.

  5. #30
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    They were looking at a quarry at the back of Forrests Elbow, the mountain drops away steeply at the point into the quarry. I got driven right around the track on the outer gravel access track (and through plenty of gates) by the BLCC President 12 years ago when we were running the Ampol Rerun and wanted to run a Khanacross event at Bathurst. He mentioned then that they were going to use the quarry in future. We ended up using tracks in McPhillamy Park, worked well.


    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    Barry,
    The comment was meant more for Bustamif but FOSC is the festival of sporting cars - previously an annual historic race meeting that had been held a few times at Bathurst. The organiser passed away recently (as in within the last 6-12 months) so not sure if it will contin.
    BLCC is as Graham mentioned - Bathurst Light Car club. They are the local car club that have club rooms at the top of Conrod straight.

    As the local club, they have council permission to run a number of events each year like hillclimbs, flying and standing 1/5ths etc directly on the mountain. They used to run motorkhanas and khanacrosses in the parks and access roads beside the track but now run them in a quarry somewhere outside of the city.

    It's very rare for them to get permission to close the whole circuit for an event but usually once or twice per month for 10 months of the year or so, they would close part of the circuit to run a hill climb for example. Back when I was an active member, the hillclimb started outside the club rooms and ran up through the Esses up to McPhillamy Park (in an opposite direction to the great race). Flying 1/5ths started in the same spot but ran down Conrod straight with the timing between the two "humps" before the chase. Standing 1/5th started on pit straight (just past the last corner (I can never remember if that's Hell or Murrays corner) and ran along the straight to the end.

    These days they also run some "Mountain straight" hillclimbs which presumably start just before turn 2 and run up in the "correct direction presumably to either mcphillamy or one of the earlier parks - Reid probably but I haven't been to any of these.

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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    Yes, correct. That was at the 4CV Mini Muster when held in Bathurst a year or so ago.

    Not disputing your research Bustamif, but did you include FOSC as possible competition entries?
    I imagine, they would have the highest probability of an A110 entrant unless Ernst or others have ever entered a BLCC event or BLCC operated event on behalf of someone else (like Classic Rally Club for example)? The caveat being that these are normally partially closed circuit events, not the full circuit closed.
    Yes KB I did include FOSC events and although Charles has passed, they are still running events. The Bathurst events run by FOSC suffered the same problems as other Bathurst promoters with cost and the number of officials needed to run the place being the biggest hurdles so they may not be too keen to run many more. I did not include BLCC events as they don't run events on the full circuit. I have won a couple of BLCC hillclimbs back in the day and had many long celebrations in the clubhouse at Forests Elbow.

    I have not seen any other A110 pilots dispute bazzamacs claim although Ernst is the most likely as he ran at a few FOSC events at SMP.

  7. #32
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Anything less like a sedan would be hard to imagine, maybe an Aerial Atom? Hence my disdain for the idea of an SUV version!
    I'd suggest you re-examine what you think a performance SUV is by reading the specs of this vehicle:
    https://www.porsche.com/australia/mo...mance-package/
    You might notice this particular SUV has better performance (in a straight line, at least) than the new Alpine 110.

    If Alpine can knock out a clone of this vehicle I'd be happy to own one if you bought it for me, Graham.......
    It's another lovely day! Again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I'd suggest you re-examine what you think a performance SUV is by reading the specs of this vehicle:
    https://www.porsche.com/australia/mo...mance-package/
    You might notice this particular SUV has better performance (in a straight line, at least) than the new Alpine 110.
    .... and this one makes the Porsche look slow

    Alpine A110-tesla-suv.jpg

    But in Australia, I think more competition is likely to come from the likes of this; cheaper, extensive dealer network, fill performance Commodore void and if police use them, then some added free marketing.

    Alpine A110-stinger.jpg

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    The A110 was never a performance vehicle, it was a lightweight sports car, you just don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I'd suggest you re-examine what you think a performance SUV is by reading the specs of this vehicle:
    https://www.porsche.com/australia/mo...mance-package/
    You might notice this particular SUV has better performance (in a straight line, at least) than the new Alpine 110.

    If Alpine can knock out a clone of this vehicle I'd be happy to own one if you bought it for me, Graham.......

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I'd suggest you re-examine what you think a performance SUV is by reading the specs of this vehicle:
    https://www.porsche.com/australia/mo...mance-package/
    You might notice this particular SUV has better performance (in a straight line, at least) than the new Alpine 110.

    If Alpine can knock out a clone of this vehicle I'd be happy to own one if you bought it for me, Graham.......
    Who cares about the straight line speed? Can it negotiate a hairpin turn like an Alpine? I think not. I'll take my sister's 20 year old 400,000km Honda Civic over any SUV. Sheer grunt does nothing for me. A small sweet reving naturally aspirated engine, a good H pattern manual gearbox and a chassis that has you searching for corners is where the fun is.
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    I agree. That is where the fun is even though I had the lowest capacity motor and oldest car there. It was great fun once the track was dry and less risky. i cannot claim to be the first Alpine to compete at Bathurst - that honour belongs to Simon Crane is his Alpine A310 V6 but at least I was the first A110 as far as I know.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by davemcbean View Post
    Who cares about the straight line speed? Can it negotiate a hairpin turn like an Alpine? I think not. I'll take my sister's 20 year old 400,000km Honda Civic over any SUV. Sheer grunt does nothing for me. A small sweet reving naturally aspirated engine, a good H pattern manual gearbox and a chassis that has you searching for corners is where the fun is.
    Perhaps, like others here it might do you a lot of good to drive a modern, if expensive, high performance "SUV". SUV is a name coined in America for a three tonne piece of shit based on an agricultural chassis and 1930's engineering. A Porsche Macan Turbo with a Performance kit is not, definitely not, an "SUV", as an 8 minute 15 second Nordschleife time would indicate (back in 2014) . An Alpine built to the same format will not be an SUV either. You unbelievers are very loose with your descriptions and terminology, as would be expected of people who thought that the production of performance vehicles stopped at the time the original A110 was built......
    Last edited by Kim Luck; 2nd December 2017 at 07:29 PM.
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    There are plenty of cars with quicker times than the Macan that cost half the price. Just don't get it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverGTi_6 View Post
    There are plenty of cars with quicker times than the Macan that cost half the price. Just don't get it.
    Whatever you reckon is a fair thing! Snow White's arse perhaps? Porsche can charge a lot more than anyone else for a similar vehicle because they need to recoup their costs. Winning Le Mans and a dozen different endurance race series is not a cheap exercise, but you can buy a 4x4 Porsche that make a Toyota look sick on the open road. It also makes them look sick from the soccer mum's point of view. Fast cars are just that, and having driven one of the Macan Turbo variety, I can say without fear of contradiction it is a nice thing to drive. Bulk doesn't necessarily equate with speed or handling in SUV land, (America) but in Europe they know how to make it work! Price only enters into it when we can't afford the sticker.....
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    Sure mate.
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverGTi_6 View Post
    Sure mate.
    And which Nordschliefe sub 8 minute 15 second vehicle that takes the kids to school and a family with suitcases plus a roof rack and can legally tow a trailer do you own?
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  17. #42
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    Default Alpine A110

    Don't have a family or a trailer, or a roof rack or live near the Nurburgring mate, but if I did I guarantee I'd pick a 150k performance sedan over a $150k SUV any day of the week. Maybe one of these: http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...-sedan-record/ ...or an M3 sedan, or an Alfa Romeo Quadrifolio, or an AMG Mercedes etc. All significantly quicker around the Nurburgring than the Macan.

    Even my wife's 308 GTI, which cost us much less than 1/4 of the price of a Macan is likely equivalent around a track, even thought it is significant slower 0-100. I wonder where the time is made up? I'd guess the fun part (corners) and I'd say the the 800kg or so weight difference also helps.

    Last edited by SilverGTi_6; 2nd December 2017 at 10:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davemcbean View Post
    Who cares about the straight line speed? Can it negotiate a hairpin turn like an Alpine? I think not. I'll take my sister's 20 year old 400,000km Honda Civic over any SUV. Sheer grunt does nothing for me. A small sweet reving naturally aspirated engine, a good H pattern manual gearbox and a chassis that has you searching for corners is where the fun is.
    Goodness! I think that you just characterised a Matra Djet :-)

  19. #44
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    And would you be driving your $150k pride and joy even once at it's full potential for a lap time if you lived next door to the Ring? The answer is, I'd suggest no, so your personal performance comparisons might possibly be just a little biased.....
    It's another lovely day! Again!

  20. #45
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverGTi_6 View Post
    That statement makes zero sense to me. I'm assuming you know the Macan Turbo performance you referenced above costs $150k...
    I know you own a nice handling fast car. (Not new). I'm only pointing out that the appreciation of well made performance vehicles can go beyond stereotypes. I have driven 600Hp Prime Movers that for the purist have 18 manual gears and that handle like sports cars, as they should at around $200-250K.....
    It's another lovely day! Again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Perhaps, like others here it might do you a lot of good to drive a modern, if expensive, high performance "SUV". SUV is a name coined in America for a three tonne piece of shit based on an agricultural chassis and 1930's engineering. A Porsche Macan Turbo with a Performance kit is not, definitely not, an "SUV", as an 8 minute 15 second Nordschleife time would indicate (back in 2014) . An Alpine built to the same format will not be an SUV either. You unbelievers are very loose with your descriptions and terminology, as would be expected of people who thought that the production of performance vehicles stopped at the time the original A110 was built......
    I don't doubt the outright performance of these sorts of vehicles. I've driven modern large engined turbocharged vehicles like XR6 turbos, etc, but when I look at the current range of vehicles on sale it's little ones which appeal to me most like the MX5, the Toyota 86 and even the Kia Picanto!

    I want to be able to use all the car"s performance on the public road (apart from top speed) and also not have it feel like it's taking up the entire lane on a narrow country road. One time while driving up the road out of the Megalong Valley it was only the Honda Civic's size which saved me from a Land Rover Evoque coming fast down the mountain the other way, which couldn't fit entirely in his lane. If it had been SUV versus SUV somebody would have lost a mirror at the very least.
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    Cars are following the trend of the motorcycling world- adventure bikes are becoming more popular than sports bikes or tourers. SUV people I know are folk who dislike getting down into a car but rather prefer sliding across onto a car seat at an easy height ( ageing joints?). They like long wheel travel and a roof line that allows the wearing of a hat. Off road is rarely a consideration over comfort, yet they still like to drive. Manufacturers have come up with performance SUVs to suit.
    Go to any motorcycle rally and the trend is obvious. At a recent Ducati rally ( Nundle) Ducati adventure style bikes and BMW GS's outnumbered two to one same/similar brand sports bikes and tourers. Next time you are overtaken on a tight road by a motorcycle, more likely than not it will be a tall adventure bike (SUV). You makes your choice and enjoy. I wouldn't underestimate the handling of late model SUVs, bikes or cars.

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    One of the main differences between a sports car and a SUV, is:

    You have to bend your back and your neck to get in or out of a "sports car", but you don't have to with a suv.

    By the way, my other (non-frog) car is both... a Subaru Outback 3litre, six cylinder (185 h.p.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by moulton2speed View Post
    Next time you are overtaken on a tight road by a motorcycle.
    Not in my world. The bikes usually slow me up on twisty bits of road. They have far better acceleration and like to blast up to 200k on straight bits but are much slower than my R8G or Alconi on tight roads. They also generally dont realise you have caught them while they dawdle and tippy toe around corners.
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    Looks like some is having fun in a Honda Civic:-

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