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Thread: New Alpine - will we really see one on the road?

  1. #26
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    Previously being a strong proponent of manuals through a rally career and then through many MX5's , Alfa's and other cars the Getrag in my Clio Sort RsSleaves then in the shade.Faster and you can change manually mid corner it is so quick in sport or race mode.Sorry this is a real paradign change, just wish i had the readies for the new A110.
    Peter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    It would be for me.

    What would you choose?
    4C is compromised. They cheaped out in critical areas like the rear strut suspension, and they're just not as good as promised. The Alpine promises to be a better drive with proper double wishbone all round and a more civilised ride. Plus its way prettier
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  3. #28
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    More on the A110 -
    https://www.goauto.com.au/new-models...-06/73162.html


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  4. #29
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    .......and a ramp up in production to meet demand.
    http://europe.autonews.com/article/2...mail-ane-daily


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  5. #30
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    Well, definitelyin production. I shipped the radiators for the production cars yesterday, and they are made in Aus!
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  6. #31
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    4C is compromised. They cheaped out in critical areas like the rear strut suspension, and they're just not as good as promised. The Alpine promises to be a better drive with proper double wishbone all round and a more civilised ride. Plus its way prettier

    I actually agree on the pretty point. Dunno about other stuff.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 4th August 2018 at 12:12 AM.
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    I realise that not many newsagents carry it but Autocar is one of the few magazines to still do comprehensive road tests. In the issue found in my newsagent today (18-23 May 2018), the A110 PE is featured in a full test.

    Briefly put, they loved it for its chassis. The main flaw (as noted by other testers) is an odd lack of tactility in the steering. Odd, because a main development benchmark was the Cayman which, even in its latest & diminished iteration, is apparently notably more "feelful".

    Hopefully Alpine will feel embarrassed by the criticism & fix it. (My recommendation would be a non-PAS option.)

    Autocar observes that the PE is sold out.

    The future "Pure" version seems to be the one to wait for. Mind you, for me, the reported steering issues would be a deal-killer, even it I could see the point of indulging myself & getting one (given the Djet's superior dynamic charms).

    Still, Renault are to be commended for offering a Lotus-like lightweight & tossable coupe with the added charm of looking delicious (to my eye anyway). I hope that it has at least as long a life of development & sale as the original.

    cheers! Peter

  8. #33
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatstand40 View Post
    I've driven a few Dsg style boxes, still not a fan. Happy to shift my own gears, even in city traffic.

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    I haven't driven a late model DSG - ie: 7 speed wet clutch. I've only driven old 6 speed models and they were rubbish.

    We were walking back to our car one night and came upon a poor woman trying to park her DSG equipped VAG vehicle having a heck of a time. She must have seen the look of disbelief and concern on my face as we walked past her car as she got out of her car and asked if I could help. She only needed to reverse park it - didn't seem that difficult. What a nightmare. I'm not sure if the vehicle had been badly serviced, or had high kilometres, but the takeup of the auto-clutch from a standstill was a nightmare - it was all or nothing with no modulation available. This meant it went from 0 km/h to 10km/h with nothing in between. She had run it down the side of a post and had made a real mess of the car trying to park it lurching back and forwards. I managed to park it for her but if I was her I'd be selling that car ASAP.

    At least with a manual (do we really say that yet ?) clutch that's playing up there is still a chance of modulating it to allow for wear and tear. I hear the current gen DSG's are a lot better though.

    Cheers

    Justin
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6 View Post
    I haven't driven a late model DSG - ie: 7 speed wet clutch. I've only driven old 6 speed models and they were rubbish.

    We were walking back to our car one night and came upon a poor woman trying to park her DSG equipped VAG vehicle having a heck of a time. She must have seen the look of disbelief and concern on my face as we walked past her car as she got out of her car and asked if I could help. She only needed to reverse park it - didn't seem that difficult. What a nightmare. I'm not sure if the vehicle had been badly serviced, or had high kilometres, but the takeup of the auto-clutch from a standstill was a nightmare - it was all or nothing with no modulation available. This meant it went from 0 km/h to 10km/h with nothing in between. She had run it down the side of a post and had made a real mess of the car trying to park it lurching back and forwards. I managed to park it for her but if I was her I'd be selling that car ASAP.

    At least with a manual (do we really say that yet ?) clutch that's playing up there is still a chance of modulating it to allow for wear and tear. I hear the current gen DSG's are a lot better though.

    Cheers

    Justin
    We have a vehicle with 7 speed DSG. And it is fabulous to drive. Obviously one needs to adjust their driving technique to ensure smooth low speed handling. My wife, in her 60s, with no mechanical knowledge nor particular driving finesse and a lifetime of driving manuals and conventional autos has zero issues.

    The VW 6 speed DSG are in fact a wet clutch system. And VW 7 speed DSGs are a dry clutch. So you have them the wrong way around.

    DSGs perform most smoothly if correctly adjusted (in software) and if the firmware is kept up to date. There is new version of firmware for the 7 speed VW DSG, for us, dramatically improved the low speed maneuvering smoothness.

    And like manual vehicles, clutches and other components are subject to wear.

    I think you would be better served to drive a recent DSG equipped car, either Renault or VW and make comments based on that rather than your preconceptions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Obviously one needs to adjust their driving technique to ensure smooth low speed handling
    How is this at all 'obvious' that one needs to do this ? I'm not an owner so I assume this must be in the owners manual to be obvious. Regardless, as I mentioned - I've driven older DSG equipped cars and their low speed performance was without the ability to finesse operation at all.

    As I already knew, there are indeed several different DSG gearboxes used by VAG - both dry and wet clutch. The DQ500 is indeed a wet clutch 7 speed unit.

    I had no preconceptions to go on - only my first hand experience as stated.

    If I get the chance to drive a late model DSG (or similar) equiped vehicle I'll certainly take up the opportunity.

    Cheers

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  11. #36
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    No problems with the Megane DSG (about 20,000 km) nor with the diesel golf 85,000km.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6 View Post
    How is this at all 'obvious' that one needs to do this ? I'm not an owner so I assume this must be in the owners manual to be obvious. Regardless, as I mentioned - I've driven older DSG equipped cars and their low speed performance was without the ability to finesse operation at all.

    As I already knew, there are indeed several different DSG gearboxes used by VAG - both dry and wet clutch. The DQ500 is indeed a wet clutch 7 speed unit.

    I had no preconceptions to go on - only my first hand experience as stated.

    If I get the chance to drive a late model DSG (or similar) equiped vehicle I'll certainly take up the opportunity.

    Cheers

    Justin
    How is this at all 'obvious' that one needs to do this ?
    Please don't "twist" my words. The "obvious" part of my statement related to fact that DSG is a different gearbox technology to both manual and conventional automatic, so logically (or "obviously" to most of us) gives best results with a different driving technique.


    Driving DSG equipped cars is a skill competent drivers acquire by experience. I guess some never have the desire to drive a car smoothly.

    If you want learn to drive a car from a handbook, and still be a smooth driver, I'd suggest you are in la la land.

    Driving is acquired, practical skill, some learn the technique and some don't. Exactly the same as the "roadcraft" that goes with the driving skills.
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    No twisting of words required. You wrote what you wrote. I would never assume that anyone needs to learn how to drive an automatic car - that's the whole desire of an automatic gearbox - that it changes gear for you. Why would anyone need to adjust their driving because they're using a DSG equipped car ? Do people adjust their driving because they're using a torque converter equipped car ? I dare say not. Ridiculous to say 'obviously' from any perspective.

    Jump in the car and drive it - most people don't expect to have to learn the nuances of a gearbox to drive a car and hence the frustration a lot of people experience when getting into a DSG equipped car.

    Cheers

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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6 View Post
    No twisting of words required. You wrote what you wrote. I would never assume that anyone needs to learn how to drive an automatic car - that's the whole desire of an automatic gearbox - that it changes gear for you. Why would anyone need to adjust their driving because they're using a DSG equipped car ? Do people adjust their driving because they're using a torque converter equipped car ? I dare say not. Ridiculous to say 'obviously' from any perspective.

    Jump in the car and drive it - most people don't expect to have to learn the nuances of a gearbox to drive a car and hence the frustration a lot of people experience when getting into a DSG equipped car.

    Cheers

    Justin
    I think you are wrong. I've never needed to replace a clutch or synchros in a manual car or replaced bands, clutches etc. on an auto. Learning to drive an auto/DSG/EDC is just as important as learning to drive a manual transmission. You're intimating any fool can drive an auto, and they can. Badly! You probably have driven one too. But how well?
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    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6 View Post
    No twisting of words required. You wrote what you wrote. I would never assume that anyone needs to learn how to drive an automatic car - that's the whole desire of an automatic gearbox - that it changes gear for you. Why would anyone need to adjust their driving because they're using a DSG equipped car ? Do people adjust their driving because they're using a torque converter equipped car ? I dare say not. Ridiculous to say 'obviously' from any perspective.

    Jump in the car and drive it - most people don't expect to have to learn the nuances of a gearbox to drive a car and hence the frustration a lot of people experience when getting into a DSG equipped car.

    Cheers

    Justin
    OK let's look at the "learning curve" from a different "angle".

    If you owned a Peugeot 205 GTI manual. And traded it in to purchase , god help us, an Audi Q5.

    Would you hop into the Q5 and be fully comfortable with technology, performance and the different dynamics and drive the vehicle with equal familiarity as your ex Peugeot ?

    If you could do that, you are better man than me Gunga Din.

    I'm simply suggesting changing from a vehicle with a manual gearbox to a vehicle with a DSG requires some getting used to before you become fully competent.

    I've made my point, whether you choose to accept it or not.

    So it would seem pointless to discuss the matter any further and subject AF members to any more merde.
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    Seriously....Oh no - it's most likely my bad driving which has caused the worlds DSG issues.

    Read the following article where professional drivers comment on badly behaved DSG's in A3's, A45's and GTI's....but what would I know ?

    https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-rev...y--118958.html

    I think I've got my point across.

    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6 View Post
    Seriously....Oh no - it's most likely my bad driving which has caused the worlds DSG issues.

    Read the following article where professional drivers comment on badly behaved DSG's in A3's, A45's and GTI's....but what would I know ?

    https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-rev...y--118958.html

    I think I've got my point across.

    Cheers

    Justin
    In my estimation the crew of Drive wouldn't know a car from a milk crate and their credentials don't appear to cover a long enough period in total to be considered "professional drivers".
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    The only twin clutch auto I have driven is a Mitsubishi Evo 10 and the box was as smooth as silk in both gentle an spirited motoring, or a maybe it was the driver, never looked at it that way previously
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIVEDOOR View Post
    The only twin clutch auto I have driven is a Mitsubishi Evo 10 and the box was as smooth as silk in both gentle an spirited motoring, or a maybe it was the driver, never looked at it that way previously
    hehe - maybe Rob was driving at the time.....

    Cheers

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    I saw one on the road a few weeks ago. The driver was even nice enough to hold back a bit while the car in front moved up at the lights so I could get a photo. A bit dirty, but frigging awesome! Pictures from when I finally caught up with it on foot (fortunately stuck in traffic) to when I first saw it coming down the street.
    New Alpine - will we really see one on the road?-20180706_180807.jpg
    New Alpine - will we really see one on the road?-20180706_180536.jpg
    New Alpine - will we really see one on the road?-20180706_180519.jpg

  21. #46
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    Off topic, Mitsubishi give a 10 year warranty on their Getrag dual clutch transmission in the Evo X. Dual clutch wouldn't put me off an Alpine A110.

  22. #47
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    Like it or not, DSG trans are gaining "traction" in the car market.

    With fuel efficiency being demanded by car owners it is no surprise.

    At point in time DSGs are a mature technology.

    So it is necessary to move on from the " VW bad press" which has been feature of past DSG discussions.

    And if there are any "cons" with current iterations of the product IMO they are well exceed by "pros"

    Very few drivers are able to match or exceed the DSG gear change speed, compared to a driving a manual and match the smoothness of gear changes.

    It is a reality: DSGs are here to stay (until a better technology is developed).

    Personally, after gaining familiarity , I find DSGs equal to or better than conventional autos or even manuals.
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  23. #48
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    Front reminds me of the old Celica.







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    Not even if i squint.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvr View Post
    Front reminds me of the old Celica.






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