R8 r10 tandem master cylinder upgrade
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Thread: R8 r10 tandem master cylinder upgrade

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! potentz's Avatar
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    Default R8 r10 tandem master cylinder upgrade

    hi guys.i know several people have done this upgrade.my question is: is there a 19 mm bore tandem that fits straight in? or what is the easiest solution?
    cheers brian

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    Mecca parts have one that is 20.4 mm that should fit straight in.
    If you've got too much traction, you haven't got enough horse power ...




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    Quote Originally Posted by 27of85 View Post
    Mecca parts have one that is 20.4 mm that should fit straight in.
    Thanks but much too expensive

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    Brettr used a Toyota one from memory. Details maybe on an early page in his thread.
    You can use kangoo ones as well (based on clees' experience) but a spacer is needed to be machined up and possibly a new pushrod fabricated.

    I think they are similarly priced but there is a seller on eBay (I think connected to an online Alpine shop) in Europe that also sells them Alpina00 or similar is their username.

    Edit - I think the bore size on each of the above was bigger however.

    KB
    KB


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    Easy and cheap are mutually exclusive, you have to choose one or the other Angelo.

    I have used a Toyota unit on the Alconi and Meca unit on the R8G. The Toyota one was very difficult compared to the Meca Parts off the shelf unit available in either 22mm or 19mm bore.

    On the Meca one you have to remove the electric brake light switch on the RHS and put a bung in the hole. The switch will otherwise foul the brake pedal. You also have to plug one outlet hole if you are running the front line to the standard T piece.

    On both the Toyota one and the Meca one I use an electric switch mechanically operated off the pedal movement.

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    thanks for the replies guys.great info.also picked on some older threads.
    i think i will bite the bullet and opt for the meca 19mm unit.will have to sell some stuff from my stash of r8 bits to offset cost .
    cheers brian

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    The store I was trying to think of was racing car diffusion. I can't see it on his site, but I know he has listed them on eBay. Maybe contact him by email and ask for a price to compare to mecaparts.
    KB


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustamif View Post
    Easy and cheap are mutually exclusive, you have to choose one or the other Angelo.

    I have used a Toyota unit on the Alconi and Meca unit on the R8G. The Toyota one was very difficult compared to the Meca Parts off the shelf unit available in either 22mm or 19mm bore.

    On the Meca one you have to remove the electric brake light switch on the RHS and put a bung in the hole. The switch will otherwise foul the brake pedal. You also have to plug one outlet hole if you are running the front line to the standard T piece.

    On both the Toyota one and the Meca one I use an electric switch mechanically operated off the pedal movement.
    You must be looking at a different master cylinder to the one i'm looking at, as the brake light switch is not on the master cylinder.
    the brake light switch is located on the pressure drop indicator. or what ever it is that you call it.
    If you've got too much traction, you haven't got enough horse power ...




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    2001 Renault Sport Clio Cup 27 of 85
    1973 Alpine Renault A310/4 1600 VE

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    Quote Originally Posted by potentz View Post
    thanks for the replies guys.great info.also picked on some older threads.
    i think i will bite the bullet and opt for the meca 19mm unit.will have to sell some stuff from my stash of r8 bits to offset cost .
    cheers brian
    Plenty of pent up demand for R8 bits....
    JohnW

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    I used the A110 22mm bore. You may be referring to an A310 master cylinder which is a smaller bore than I was after for my brake balance requirements. I don't know if the other unit drops straight in an R8 R10 however the A110 one does based on my own experience as described.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustamif View Post
    I used the A110 22mm bore. You may be referring to an A310 master cylinder which is a smaller bore than I was after for my brake balance requirements. I don't know if the other unit drops straight in an R8 R10 however the A110 one does based on my own experience as described.
    Bustamif,does the a110 mecaparts unit have threaded fluid inlet ports or the rubber grommet type.? Are the fittings available locally or did you buy them from mecas?
    Why did you choose 22mm over19mm.?
    Regards brian

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    Quote Originally Posted by potentz View Post
    Bustamif,does the a110 mecaparts unit have threaded fluid inlet ports or the rubber grommet type.? Are the fittings available locally or did you buy them from mecas?
    Why did you choose 22mm over19mm.?
    Regards brian
    The Meca A110 units have threaded inlet ports not the rubber grommets. I sourced all the fittings locally from my vast pile of fuel, oil and water fittings, some silver solder and a couple of bits from the local hydraulic place (hawkesbury hydraulics).

    The choice of 22mm is after trial and error. It suits my use and driving style. The discs are solid discs, standard diam, standard calipers rear and Meca billet calipers on the front with thick discs and the thinner pads. No rear pressure limiter and no booster - I hate boosters. Very efficient cool air ducting to the front brakes.

    I have observed that like oils, everybody has firm views on brakes and there are plenty of opinions.

    My view is that we are not doing 24 hours of Le Mans or a Bathurst 1000 and we are not stopping a 1300 kg car from 300kph so there is no need to have huge brakes. The have to stop a light car in a very short braking distance without fading after a reasonable number of very hard stops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustamif View Post
    The Meca A110 units have threaded inlet ports not the rubber grommets. I sourced all the fittings locally from my vast pile of fuel, oil and water fittings, some silver solder and a couple of bits from the local hydraulic place (hawkesbury hydraulics).

    The choice of 22mm is after trial and error. It suits my use and driving style. The discs are solid discs, standard diam, standard calipers rear and Meca billet calipers on the front with thick discs and the thinner pads. No rear pressure limiter and no booster - I hate boosters. Very efficient cool air ducting to the front brakes.

    I have observed that like oils, everybody has firm views on brakes and there are plenty of opinions.

    My view is that we are not doing 24 hours of Le Mans or a Bathurst 1000 and we are not stopping a 1300 kg car from 300kph so there is no need to have huge brakes. The have to stop a light car in a very short braking distance without fading after a reasonable number of very hard stops.
    Cheers Bustamif. You answered all my questions.thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustamif View Post
    The Meca A110 units have threaded inlet ports not the rubber grommets. I sourced all the fittings locally from my vast pile of fuel, oil and water fittings, some silver solder and a couple of bits from the local hydraulic place (hawkesbury hydraulics).

    The choice of 22mm is after trial and error. It suits my use and driving style. The discs are solid discs, standard diam, standard calipers rear and Meca billet calipers on the front with thick discs and the thinner pads. No rear pressure limiter and no booster - I hate boosters. Very efficient cool air ducting to the front brakes.

    I have observed that like oils, everybody has firm views on brakes and there are plenty of opinions.

    My view is that we are not doing 24 hours of Le Mans or a Bathurst 1000 and we are not stopping a 1300 kg car from 300kph so there is no need to have huge brakes. The have to stop a light car in a very short braking distance without fading after a reasonable number of very hard stops.
    And, not mentioned, the larger the master cylinder piston diameter, the less the travel at the pedal to operate the brakes but the higher the pedal pressure required. It is a square function, 22 squared = 484 and 19 squared = 361. The ratio is about 1.3 or 0.75.

    I vaguely recall Alan Moore commenting on this in the past.
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    And, not mentioned, the larger the master cylinder piston diameter, the less the travel at the pedal to operate the brakes but the higher the pedal pressure required. It is a square function, 22 squared = 484 and 19 squared = 361. The ratio is about 1.3 or 0.75.

    I vaguely recall Alan Moore commenting on this in the past.
    The pedal pressure to lock the fronts using the combination I mentioned above is actually less than the pedal pressure required to lock front wheels with the standard R8/R10 master cylinder. The removal of the rear pressure limiting valve and combination of mintex pads on the front and standard pads on the rear changes the normal brake balance and reduces pedal effort even with the 22mm bore size. I generally do a lot of testing to arrive at my setups.

    My front to rear weight distribution was set up on corner weight scales during the build and my suspension setup uses progressive rate front springs, so the vehicle dynamics during hard braking and turn in is a little more sophisticated than standard. Unsprung weight is much less than big brake conversions around using 16TS or similar sliding Calipers and the flywheel effect of my discs is a fraction of the big brake setups I have seen for road going R8/10's.

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    That's interesting, and thanks.

    Exactly which Mintex pads please? Is there a part number or a material spec/name? I hadn't thought of playing with specific pads, but it is obvious once you do (think, that is).

    I've certainly found my bog standard brakes lighter and more progressive without the pressure limiting valve. Mine was the earliest, least sophisticated of the three types used on the R8 series of cars and I don't miss it at all!
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    That's interesting, and thanks.

    Exactly which Mintex pads please? Is there a part number or a material spec/name? I hadn't thought of playing with specific pads, but it is obvious once you do (think, that is).

    I've certainly found my bog standard brakes lighter and more progressive without the pressure limiting valve. Mine was the earliest, least sophisticated of the three types used on the R8 series of cars and I don't miss it at all!
    The front pads are mintex 1155 Meca Part number Mp 2809.

    Unfortunately there is not much range in R8 Gordini pads. If you run proper race style calipers there is a huge range of pads with various Cf from very high bite to long distance pads all with various operating temp ranges depending on the use and track layout. All need different techniques when braking, some have so much bite you only apply very late for a short time. Since I am mostly on the road with the R8G and occasional competition, I am happy with the setup I have.
    JohnW likes this.

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    Thanks for the Mintex number! Mine is very much road use, so easy quick stopping when someone does something really stupid just in front of me is the objective!
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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