Renault 16TS replacement of clutch throwout bearing.
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Thread: Renault 16TS replacement of clutch throwout bearing.

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    Default Renault 16TS replacement of clutch throwout bearing.

    Just wondering if others have had a hell of a job removing the 2 pins that are part of the throw out bearing mechanism.
    I have tried just about everything I know and 4 hours later the pins are still stuck firmly and don't look like letting go. I even made an extractor tool similar to EMB384(Renault special tooling)

    I have a brand new throw out bearing assembly and need to fit this.

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    Any short cuts, bogie methods, would be appreciated before I start grinding them off and drilling them out!!!!

    Thanks guys See Attached pics
    Phil

    Renault 16TS replacement of clutch throwout bearing.-dscn2209.jpgRenault 16TS replacement of clutch throwout bearing.-dscn2211.jpgRenault 16TS replacement of clutch throwout bearing.-dscn2212.jpg

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Do you really need to take the fork pins out to replace the bearing?

    If yes, then I think this is a good time for you to move to a R17 style clutch bell if possible.

    Don't drill them, you will damage the shaft which is (surprisingly) softer than the pins or the fork which is just cast steel.

    On my 17 I made my own tool to extract the pins from a strong steel plate with two slots that fit just under the pin heads and two screw holes threaded so I could push against the shaft (used some shim stock so I didn't mar the shaft). One of the slots is wider so it doesn't catch the pin, otherwise you'd try to pull both at once - it won't work. The other slot is tapered so it can get right under the head of the pin and not let go - almost like a knife edge.

    Your situation is a bit more difficult because your shaft doesn't project out on one side. You could use another steel plate to make a beam to use across those two threaded holes in the casing that show above the fork in the picture. Bolt the plate down there so it doesn't move and push against it on one side and against the fork itself on the other side.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 2nd October 2017 at 09:31 PM.
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    COL
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    Those pins are a bugger to get out.

    I have never had to replace a throw out bearing on an R16 so sorry can't help there Phil.

    I made an extractor like you have there Phil but it was not very successful at get the pins out, Schlit's steel plate sound like a better way to go to me.

    Sorry not much help this time.
    Regards Col

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    Thanks for your suggestions Schlitzaugen. Don't suppose you have a pic of the tool you made or even a sketch would do.

    Can't believe 2 little pins can cause such trauma!! Couldn't they have just used 2 threaded bolts!!!

    I pretty much understand what you have said here, I'll attack it again later this week and see what happens.

    Can't imagine anybody out there would have a R17 bell housing they don't want.

    Cheers
    Phil

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    Thanks anyway Col. Wish me luck, I'm going to need it.

    Phil

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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    I have never pulled out the pins to change the throwout bearing on any of my various Renault machines including the 16TS powered R8 and 4CV.

    I only remember disconnecting the spring and moving the clutch arm as far as possible to allow the bearing to be removed, and that to refit, the bearing is partially fitted on the guide sleeve whilst the arm is made to intersect with it, fitting the return spring last.

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    Well Alan that surprises me. But I'll have a crack at it tomorrow. Seems to make good sense. Just wondering why the workshop manual doesn't tell you this ??? Phil



    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore View Post
    I have never pulled out the pins to change the throwout bearing on any of my various Renault machines including the 16TS powered R8 and 4CV.

    I only remember disconnecting the spring and moving the clutch arm as far as possible to allow the bearing to be removed, and that to refit, the bearing is partially fitted on the guide sleeve whilst the arm is made to intersect with it, fitting the return spring last.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I don't understand why the manual even tells you how to get the pins out. Especially in the R17 manual where you don't have any reason to do it. I pulled mine out because I had to swap it over, but in normal service there is no reason to screw around with the fork.

    No pictures, sorry. Just make sure you get a strong thick plate and cut the slit such that the pin head can not force itself through (i.e. a very tight fit under the pin head). I took a couple of tries to get it right and did the tool a couple of times before it worked. I underestimated how tough those pins are to remove.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    I've never had to pull the pins. Just did it the way Alan has said.

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    COL
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    If you look at Phil's pics there is no spring like the R17 has.

    The R16 is different and the only way to change it is to remove those pins.
    Regards Col

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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    What a pain.

    I have had success drilling broken head bolts in blocks but again it is a real pain in the dorongo.

    I used a carbide drill bit (bolts are usually on the exhaust side and tough as nails from heat cycling, probably why they break in the first place) and these are not cheap. To do that, you need something to guide the drill bit straight and square. You need a tube that goes snugly on the outside of the pin and inside the tube, another tube that fits snugly inside the tube and has a hole the same diameter as the drill bit. You will probably need to cut the pins first below the "neck" so the bit doesn't go sideways there. Go slowly, pecking at it and inspect often to make sure you don't kill the lever shaft. The tubes don't need to be anything special, but they need to be fairly accurate in size so they don't wobble around. With this technique I have managed to save even an alloy Peugeot 205GTI block which people usually send to spark erosion in this situation. Much cheaper to do it at home even with the cost of the carbide drill, but it's a lot of screwing around (geddit? - screwing around?), slow going and very high pucker factor.

    Come to think of it, how's your welding skills and possibilities? I think you could easily weld a nut or something that would give you some serious purchase on those pins to pull them out.

    You know what? A pair of valve retaining collets and washer might help if you find the right one to fit under the head and then pull with pilot bearing puller type tool.

    Another option I think I have seen on the internets is to drill a couple of holes in the casing behind the pins so you can cut the heads on the clutch side and hammer them through and then you tap the holes in the casing and put a couple of grub screws in with loctite to seal the holes. I think this was my plan B back then. That way, next time you have to replace the bearing it's going to be a lot easier. I think this is what I would do now, because every other method has you back to square one when you want to replace the bearing next time. Metric 8 should suffice as diameter.

    I wouldn't use that type of pins again anyway, a couple of roll pins should be good enough, there isn't enough strain on the fork to shear them (this is what I use on my R17).
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Thank you everybody that has taken the time to help me out. Alan, special thanks to you as you really got me thinking when you said you have never removed the pins.
    I think I had a serious 'blond moment' yesterday as I walked into the garage this morning and took a real close look at the throw out operating mechanism.
    I can hardly believe what I found!! There was a tiny dag on the casting right where the throw out fork moves forward and it was stopping the fork from traveling to its full length.
    I took the dag of, and presto, the fork moved all the way out and I just took the old thrust bearing of. Took me 6minutes!! so what the hell is the manual going about pulling the pins, sounds like a servicing time earning trick for the clutch people.
    See Attached pics.

    Now can I ask, how is the best way to get the gearbox drive shaft SEAL out of the bell housing ??

    I'm hoping CBC bearings will have one, all I know it has a 24mm inside diameter where the feather edge of the seal rubs.

    Thanks again all, BARNIE will be for ever grateful.
    Cheers Phil

    Attachment 100435Renault 16TS replacement of clutch throwout bearing.-dscn2215.jpg

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    From the inside, like the other transaxles? That is, from the diff side?

    Good you sorted the clutch fork.
    JohnW

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    COL
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    Phil

    According to the parts manual that I have the seal is 24 x 38.5 x 10
    Regards Col

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    Thanks Col. All I got to now is get the old one out. Might be a long screwdriver job!!!

    Cheers
    Phil

    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Phil

    According to the parts manual that I have the seal is 24 x 38.5 x 10

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    Thought as much, thanks John.
    Phil



    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    From the inside, like the other transaxles? That is, from the diff side?

    Good you sorted the clutch fork.

  17. #17
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by R8philSA View Post
    Thanks Col. All I got to now is get the old one out. Might be a long screwdriver job!!!

    Cheers
    Phil
    Thats how I get them out, it usually destroys the seal, but thats no problem as it aint going to be reused.
    Regards Col

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R8philSA View Post
    Thought as much, thanks John.
    Phil
    My guess, not knowledge...
    JohnW

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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    On the R17 there is a ring clip at the bottom of the little tube poking out of the bell housing. If you take that off, you can then bang the tube to back out and it'll push the seal out first. Use a soft hammer, of course.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Not sure about your 16 bellhousing but have a look at the tube that guides the thrust. It has a hole in it. That hole must point downwards in case there is an oil leak for the oil to drip out or else it will run further down the tube and drip on the clutch.
    Frans.

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! driven's Avatar
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    It is very easy to remove any dowel pin
    As good as any using hydraulic pressure
    https://www.wikihow.com/Remove-Tight-Dowel-Pins

    Or just buy a stud removal tool, relatively cheap
    JohnW likes this.

  22. #22
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    Use the same principle to remove a pinion bearing. Fill the hole full of grease and using and old pinion shaft or better a tight fitting piece of dowel. Give the dowel a few good hits with a hammer and the bearing will come out.
    driven likes this.

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    All done. I just collapsed it in from the sides took the measurements from Col's post and got a new one from CBC Bearings Holden Hill.

    Eazy piezy. Phil
    COL likes this.

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