BARNIE needs more help! R16TS Piston
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Thread: BARNIE needs more help! R16TS Piston

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    Default BARNIE needs more help! R16TS Piston

    Hi fellow Froggers. I hope this will be the last rescue call.

    During the engine overhaul I recently discovered my No. 2 con-rod was bent!! A good friend offered me a replacement but unfortunately I think it was from a RENAULT 18 as the piston was 2mm to big and the rod was slightly different in length.
    Colin Stark (Alpine Affaire Melbourne) kindly donated a good con-rod and I was hoping to use the piston attached but the piston sent had very small oil return holes and was 40grams heaver (upset balance!!) so rather than trying to salvage this piston thought I would put out a call for a piston that's the same as the other good three. I have new rings.

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    So if anybody can help I would be most grateful. Happy to purchase and pay postage.

    The one I'm after is for a 1565cc - 77mmDia and must have the small chamfer on it. See Attached

    Thanks Guys, just got to keep the little French baby going.
    Cheers
    Phil

    BARNIE needs more help! R16TS Piston-dscn2030_li.jpgBARNIE needs more help! R16TS Piston-dscn2031.jpg

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    I appreciate your aim of trying to get the car going on a budget, but if you really want to enjoy the car, you can't cut costs on the mechanicals. Even though it is a rarer occurrence than with the Sierra motors, the 16 motor can still suffer from ring land wear resulting in burnt pistons, or lost skirts. I consider it a bit of a folly to replace one piston in an unmatched liner.

    Send Sarosa a PM, as he was looking to sell a low mileage 16 motor relatively inexpensively. Or see if he has a good matched set of pistons and liners as a start, then you can check the ring land wear with a new set of rings – at least everything will be matched.

    Yes, I know I'm being a very boring wet blanket, but I've seen too many times (once is really enough) where costs have attempted to be minimised. Resulting in a short tilt tray trip back to the pits, and an even longer trip back home following a very short weekend. That's no fun.
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I'm with Simon.

    Do you want to buy my R17 engine? Complete, ran when parked.
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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    Appreciate what you are saying here Simon.
    I was hoping for a good piston to turn up, and of the same style. I have three good pistons already and I'm just squeezing a 0.003" feeler gauge into the ring land of the top rings on all three pistons and can't get the 0,003" feeler into the second ring groves. According to the mechanics of piston installation it is allowable for 0.0015" per inch of diameter so I'm confident these will do the job.
    As for the liners, I have spent considerable time honing and measuring up the liners and they are in good condition and I believe these liners and pistons as with the bearings have done very little work. I will be re-installing them into the block using the opposite thrust side. The bottom seal lands are perfect.
    I have already considered what you are saying and take nothing away from the good advice given however in this case finances are very limited and considering this is being built as a fun machine I'm prepared to push the boundaries. I guess sometimes in life I can take a ' I told you so'
    If the engine blows up then that will give me the best excuse to build another. One of my favorite things in restoration of a car is building up the engine and at my age it gives me a worthwhile project.

    So I'll hang out and see what turns up. If I get a crappy piston that is not as good as the other three, well, I'll cross that bridge when/if I come to it.
    Thanks again for your input, I can't say I wasn't warned.
    Cheers
    Phil

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    No, but thanks for the offer Schlitzaugen.
    Cheers
    Phil


    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I'm with Simon.

    Do you want to buy my R17 engine? Complete, ran when parked.

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    I will have too check but I may have a piston. May. If I do I'll let you know. I will include it in a parcel with the nuts. I like someone who does things on a budget and doesn't just throw money at everything. I am happy that I can contribute to Barnie.

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    COL
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    I have pistons here but after checking the ring to piston land gap they are outside the spec for just new rings.
    Regards Col

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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    I have pistons here but after checking the ring to piston land gap they are outside the spec for just new rings.
    Hi
    Just pointing out for general information, that it is quite acceptable to skim a top ring groove and fit a ring spacer above the ring to bring the side clearance to specs. Was a common practice previously if the pistons were within usable specs otherwise. Any engine reconditioner would skim the grooves and supply the ring spacers.
    Perhaps not a well know fact
    Jaahn

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Just pointing out for general information, that it is quite acceptable to skim a top ring groove and fit a ring spacer above the ring to bring the side clearance to specs. Was a common practice previously if the pistons were within usable specs otherwise.
    es, I'm aware ring spacers could be used, however with the (few) Renault engines I've known where they have been used, they seem to have ended up trying to be spat out sometime down the track :-)

    As I'm not an auto-engineer, or qualified auto-anything, I can't say why that may have happened, perhaps just the moon phase. But I do know they can work to get a few more miles out of older pistons.

    I'm no advocate of throwing money at anything, but when on a budget, and building for reliability, I just like starting from a matched base of known parts :-)
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    I have a new, unused piston, with a used rod fitted. The piston has some small marks but they should be ok and even polish out. Not sure I have the cap for the rod but will have another look.

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    I told you were a legend Sunroof, can't believe you have done a double hat trick. So pleased you are feeling part of the BARNIE re-berth.

    Just got to ask, is the piston you have the style like in the photo I sent on my first post?? Four big drain holes with two slits through the lower Oil ring flange. Chances are your con-rod will be Ok, I'll check it all out don't worry.
    I have a good con-rod and cap from Colin Stark so I'll make the call when I see what you are sending. One way or another I'll get this engine to finish stage using all my engineering skills and experience.
    I'll keep my fingers crossed that the piston is good, by your description it sounds Ok.
    Thanks again so much, really appreciate it.
    Cheers mate
    Phil
    PS: By the way. Where is Boonah, I was up near Cairns last month, be interested to meet up some time.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    I have a new, unused piston, with a used rod fitted. The piston has some small marks but they should be ok and even polish out. Not sure I have the cap for the rod but will have another look.

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    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    With all this talk about pistons. Didn't our South African friend have a source of custom forged pistons cheap cheap cheap?

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    Default Boonah

    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    with all this talk about pistons. Didn't our south african friend have a source of custom forged pistons cheap cheap cheap?
    south west of brissy ,nowhere near cairns

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    I'll finish cleaning off the grease tomorrow and compare it to your photo. If all is the same then I'll pack and post. I notice the arrow on this one points to the cam. You could always relieve the holes a little to get the weight right.

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    I thought of that but the assembly that Colin sent me has small oil return holes and the Piston, pin and Rod is 40grams heaver than the other three I have and 40grams is a lot to grind away so hence the same piston as I have already needs to be found.
    I'll keep my fingers crossed.

    BARNIE needs more help! R16TS Piston-dscn2030_li.jpg

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    Back in the day when I raced an open wheeler with an 850cc Dauphine motor we cut back our piston skirts to reduce weight and friction. In the end we took so much away that we only got a few practice runs and then two or three races before the rings broke. Mind you there wasn't much left of the piston skirt. Apart from getting the weight right the size of the actual holes probably won't make a lot of difference in the long run.

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    Me again. While searching for the end of the conrod which I didn't find I found the rest of the set. But one piston has a crack and the reason they were never installed, in fact I now remember I used the rings and put the old pistons back into the new sleeves. They have no oils holes. However I will send the lot and you can sort the conunderum out at your end. I have no knurled nuts that suit 16 studs they are all for R12's but I'll send 3 chrome and you can decide whether to use them or not. Whether pistons have oils holes or not is too important. So long as all the other diementions and weighs match. I'll send Express post. Chin up Rob

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    Thanks Rob. You say they have no oil holes! Not sure if I can use them? I'm just out for a few hours I'll chew it over and get back to you later today. Got to try and get one like the rest otherwise I'll start agaain with 4 of another typr. Weight is critical for balance.
    Thanks again for you kind offer. I'll be in touch. Any chance you could attach a photo??
    Phil

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    Sorry no photo packed and ready to go. Weight is important. Oil holes not really.

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    OK Rob. I'll work something out when they arrive. Hope you got my PM regarding postage costs.
    Thanks again, Barnie will be forever grateful.
    Best regards
    Phil




    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    Sorry no photo packed and ready to go. Weight is important. Oil holes not really.

  21. #21
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    The postage isn't worth the trouble, forget it. Put me down as a sponsor of the car. Parcel was sent Express post.

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    OK Rob, point taken but first meeting the coffee's on me. Thanks again for your help. I'LL BE LOOKING OUT FOR THE POSTMAN!!
    Cheers mate
    Phil


    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    The postage isn't worth the trouble, forget it. Put me down as a sponsor of the car. Parcel was sent Express post.

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    Sorry the pistons do have a few marks as they were in the scrap pistons and liners bin. I recently needed a good liner for a 1565cc engine and had a scrap liner from a 16TL. I took it into a engine recondtioners and had it bored to 77mm. So I always do keep even scrap stuff. Never know when it might be needed.

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    [Phil, I have a set of N.O.S. pistons with gudgeons, these will need polishing as they have been sitting in their boxes a while. Contact me or call 0414 275 534

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    I'll PM you Chris.
    Phil



    Quote Originally Posted by chris hartwell View Post
    [Phil, I have a set of N.O.S. pistons with gudgeons, these will need polishing as they have been sitting in their boxes a while. Contact me or call 0414 275 534

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