BARNIE needs help!! R16TS Rocker Cover securing.
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    Default BARNIE needs help!! R16TS Rocker Cover securing.

    Hi fellow Froggers.

    "BARNIE" is still progressing slowly at the moment due to most days being 7degrees in the Garage!
    I'm trying to get the engine rebuilt before spring so I can go back to the brakes and body work.

    Ive come to a hitch!! When we dragged BARNIE out of the barn we noticed the rocker box cover was thrown in the back and missing from it were the Three Rocker Box holding down (nuts/thingoes).

    I have no idea what they are (look like) but I know I need three to hold the rocker box in place.

    Can anybody out there help me out please?

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    I did some measurements and whatever they are they must be like a long wingnut as the distance from the top of the three studs in the rocker shafts to the top of the Rocker Box is 7mm. So allowing for a oil tight washer and a good grip on the studs I would imagine they might be about 12 - 20mm long.

    Leave it with you, very grateful of any help with this.
    Cheers
    Phil

    Attachment 99393BARNIE needs help!! R16TS Rocker Cover securing.-dscn2024.jpg

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    COL
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    Hi Phil

    There are two types that I have seen:

    1) Flange nut type

    2) A nut that has lobes and scallops

    You should have three studs projecting up from the rocker gear cross supports, which will go through the three holes in the rocker cover. There are fibre washers which go between the rocker cover and the nuts, these should be in your gasket set.
    Regards Col

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    I should have some spare nuts with lobes and scollops, as Col puts it, if you want them. You'll need to find your own fibre washers and studs if you don't have them. There should be a steel washer between the nut and the fibre washers. Let me know and I'll confirm that I have them and put them in the post.

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    By the way these nuts can be undone or tightened with a spark plug spanner.

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    I should have some spare nuts with lobes and scollops, as Col puts it
    I couldn't think of another way to describe them.
    Regards Col

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    Thank you Col and Sunroof.

    I do have three studs which come up from the rocker gear but when the rocker shafts are fitted to the head the studs are 7mm short of the top of the Rocker cover. So they don't go through the Rocker cover. So now I'm wondering do I scrap these short studs and get longer?? I have three R16TS rocker shafts (duel shafts) and all three have short studs, which makes me think there is a special Renault nut/threaded tube that goes here.
    Sunroof.
    If the above reply makes sense, yes please if your offering. Postage on me of course.
    17 Dennis Grove
    Vista SA 5091

    Thanks again Col and Sunroof.
    Phil
    BARNIE needs help!! R16TS Rocker Cover securing.-dscn2023.jpg
    Last edited by R8philSA; 24th August 2017 at 09:46 PM.

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    Ah Ha. Just found a tech drawing in the front of the Workshop Manual showing what I suspected, a long nut looking thingo.

    And Yes, I'll look after the fiber washer and steel washer.

    See Attached
    Phil
    BARNIE needs help!! R16TS Rocker Cover securing.-dscn2026.jpg

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    1000+ Posts Shoji's Avatar
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    I measured the studs on a 16ts head I have. They are 40mm not counting the thread that goes into rocker gear.
    Hang for five, I'll take a pic of the nuts on my 17
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

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    COL
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    I'll measure the stud length I have here if you like, I'm working on an engine rebuild myself and have easy access to the rocker gear.

    Sounds like you may need to get some longer studs.
    Regards Col

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    1000+ Posts Shoji's Avatar
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    BARNIE needs help!! R16TS Rocker Cover securing.-img_20170824_184935890.jpg
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoji View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thats them.
    Regards Col

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoji View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks Shoji but not what I'm after. See my earlier post with diagram drawing.

    Cheers
    Phil

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    Yes Col I could do longer studs but according to the tech drawing in the front of the Workshop Manual there is a special nut for the R16TS

    See Attached drawing:

    BARNIE needs help!! R16TS Rocker Cover securing.-dscn2026.jpg




    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    I'll measure the stud length I have here if you like, I'm working on an engine rebuild myself and have easy access to the rocker gear.

    Sounds like you may need to get some longer studs.

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    1000+ Posts Shoji's Avatar
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    Well the head I have for a 16ts has only plain old nuts and a washer. Not even large fibre washers.
    I understand the type your are after now. Special type
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

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    The rocker cover nuts (even the cutely named lobe and scallop ones) are not shouldered. For holding the rocker cover in place, just plain old nuts and washers (in conjunction with the fibre washers) will suffice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R8philSA View Post
    Yes Col I could do longer studs but according to the tech drawing in the front of the Workshop Manual there is a special nut for the R16TS

    See Attached drawing:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    No, there isn't.

    What you see in the technical drawing is the representation of the stud thread.

    Shoji showed you what you need. Those are the nuts, and you also (obviously) need longer studs.

    My guess is someone has replaced the original studs (or lost them) and perhaps replaced with what they had on hand and who knows what they bodged if they ever managed to get the engine back together (or maybe that's what stalled the repair in the first place).

    Learn from Frank's experience (fgiggler). Don't mess with those studs or you'll break the rocker arm supports and then the real fun starts.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Very neatly tied shoe laces there Phil, well done..

    Every day when I wake up I reach up in the darkness with my eyes shut and if I cannot feel anything that resembles a wooden lid I know it will be a good day. No lid today.

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    OK, I re-looked at the drawing and sure enough I misinterpreted the drawing. I need longer studs for sure. So Sunroof, I would be very grateful if you could find three of the " nuts with lobes and scollops " happy to buy then off you and/or pay package and post.
    Thanks again
    Phil Thompson
    17 Dennis Grove
    Vista SA 5091



    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    I should have some spare nuts with lobes and scollops, as Col puts it, if you want them. You'll need to find your own fibre washers and studs if you don't have them. There should be a steel washer between the nut and the fibre washers. Let me know and I'll confirm that I have them and put them in the post.

  19. #19
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    Ha Ha Ha Very funny Graham.
    Phil

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    Thank you Schlitzaugen. You're right.
    I was swayed by the shortness of the studs on all three rocker shafts I have but I see now. So its off to the stud shop to get longer ones. Hopefully Sunroof will find three spare nuts and I'll measure them up before I go get the studs.
    Cheers
    Phil



    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    No, there isn't.

    What you see in the technical drawing is the representation of the stud thread.

    Shoji showed you what you need. Those are the nuts, and you also (obviously) need longer studs.

    My guess is someone has replaced the original studs (or lost them) and perhaps replaced with what they had on hand and who knows what they bodged if they ever managed to get the engine back together (or maybe that's what stalled the repair in the first place).

    Learn from Frank's experience (fgiggler). Don't mess with those studs or you'll break the rocker arm supports and then the real fun starts.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    No.

    Don't use the lobes and scallops nuts. They rely on force to stay put and that's how you end up in shit.

    Go to the nut and bolt shop and get three M6 nylock flanged nuts (make sure they are not serrated). The flange is large enough to take a fibre washer and seal, and the nylock allows you to do them "just so" tight with no fear they might come undone. You can actually adjust their tightness very finely to make sure they don't leak and the rocker cover gasket is clamped enough so it doesn't leak either and be sure they're not coming off because the nylock won't let them.

    If you can't find those nuts at a nut and bolt shop, go visit your local hobby shop, they have them. They're used for model helicopter rotor blades.

    I stole the idea from a Honda Civic I had in the past and used it on all my cars.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  22. #22
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    I'll measure the stud length I have here if you like, I'm working on an engine rebuild myself and have easy access to the rocker gear.

    Sounds like you may need to get some longer studs.
    Hi Phil

    The studs protrude 41mm out of the cross supports.
    Regards Col

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    I have 3 chrome "lobes and scallops" nuts if you want them. I've never had any problems using them. Yours free of charge. Just confirm you still want them. cheers Rob

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    Hey Rob. You're a legend
    Yes please. I'll measure them up for height and get the correct studs.
    Thank you so much. Just got to keep these little French babies alive.
    Happy to send you postage.
    Cheers
    Phil

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    I have 3 chrome "lobes and scallops" nuts if you want them. I've never had any problems using them. Yours free of charge. Just confirm you still want them. cheers Rob

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    OK, thanks for your advice Schlitzaugen. I have had R8 and R10 with the lobes and scallops nuts simply used a little stud lock on them, did the job for years so hopefully nothing changed on the R16 Rocker Covers.
    Thanks again for your help
    Phil



    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    No.

    Don't use the lobes and scallops nuts. They rely on force to stay put and that's how you end up in shit.

    Go to the nut and bolt shop and get three M6 nylock flanged nuts (make sure they are not serrated). The flange is large enough to take a fibre washer and seal, and the nylock allows you to do them "just so" tight with no fear they might come undone. You can actually adjust their tightness very finely to make sure they don't leak and the rocker cover gasket is clamped enough so it doesn't leak either and be sure they're not coming off because the nylock won't let them.

    If you can't find those nuts at a nut and bolt shop, go visit your local hobby shop, they have them. They're used for model helicopter rotor blades.

    I stole the idea from a Honda Civic I had in the past and used it on all my cars.

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