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    Fellow Frogger! G4ME's Avatar
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    Default Dauphine G Carby

    Hi Guys,
    I have an R1091 Dauphine Gordini under restoration. Before I get the carby rebuilt I want to make sure I have the right one. It is a Solex 70957. Other markings are F34 BIC SA 8
    Does this look like the right jigger?

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    Thanks...Paul
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    I think it should be two 45 side draught Webers hanging off a 16ts bored out to 1950cc.

    Can anyone double confirm that?



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    And a couple of photos if that helps
    Attachment 98081Attachment 98082
    There is a law against doing more than 100kmh...there's no law on how fast you get to 100kmh!!!

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    Here's one in situ. Yours seems to be missing the automatic choke.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dauphine G Carby-183.jpg  
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    Is that a 34BIC? Original equipment is a 32PIBT, with an auto choke heated by tubing connected to the manifold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettr View Post
    I think it should be two 45 side draught Webers hanging off a 16ts bored out to 1950cc.

    Can anyone double confirm that?



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    I think you are a bit short on the capacity. You actually get a little over 2 Litre with the Mecaparts kit. I reckon that is the capacity that Ray (geckoeng) is aiming for with his Dauphine project project in WA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Is that a 34BIC? Original equipment is a 32PIBT, with an auto choke heated by tubing connected to the manifold.
    Thanks Simon. How do I tell? I definately want to put the right one on it.
    Cheers...Paul
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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    BrettR and Bustamif,
    You are a disgrace, this was a serious thread till you, butted in......

    Like it!!!!

    Ray

    PS. My Dauph will be 1647cc (?) but with good stuff and a cruiser.
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    Quote Originally Posted by G4ME View Post
    Thanks Simon. How do I tell? I definately want to put the right one on it.
    Cheers...Paul
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    Quote Originally Posted by G4ME View Post
    How do I tell?
    It'll have 32PIBT cast into the body, and it'll look like this one, with the auto choke on the side.

    OTOH the 34BIC may make the motor breathe a bit better. So if it was running well with that carby, it could be considered a period modification- especially if it was jetted and tuned to the motor when it was installed.

    Gee this 508 Resource error is getting really boring........
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dauphine G Carby-solex-32pibt.jpg  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post

    Gee this 508 Resource error is getting really boring........
    I agree, I just give up some times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    It'll have 32PIBT cast into the body, and it'll look like this one, with the auto choke on the side.

    OTOH the 34BIC may make the motor breathe a bit better. So if it was running well with that carby, it could be considered a period modification- especially if it was jetted and tuned to the motor when it was installed.

    Gee this 508 Resource error is getting really boring........
    Thanks Simon. Definitely can't see any markings on it other than my original post.
    I think it is the original Carby off the car but given the entire engine bay was dismantled before I acquired the car I can't confirm that. It'd need a carby rebuild anyway so maybe I just buy a new one from OS. I figure this one doesn't have the auto choke which will potentially cause issues anyway.
    Thanks again
    Paul
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    One more question likely to be for Simon again.
    What is the difference between a 32PIBT and a PIBC? There's these ones on ebay. Probably need re-jetting and set up but it might be a simple solution. Thoughts??
    Solex 32 PBIC Carburettor | eBay
    Paul
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    That one is cheaper than getting one recoed but probably not as good, made in India or something.

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    Hi Paul,

    I think your ebay carbie has a manual choke set up, unlike the original which has an auto choke. They are probably the same otherwise.


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    Quote Originally Posted by G4ME View Post
    Thoughts??
    My thoughts are (unlikely to be helpful :-)). If you can't find a PIBT (I'm surprised given the numbers of Florides with R10 motors, all of the PIBTs have obviously just been binned), just use what you have. Those motors will run on an oil can full of petrol squirted down the carby (under controlled conditions etc, so don't try that at home kiddies). So I'd guess that with the right jets and tuning, the BIC will work, and potentially provide a poofteenth of extra horsepower over the 32PIBT. The lack of choke could be overcome with either a 10S cable, or a coupla pumps on the pedal before starting (if originality isn't important).

    Reviews on the repro carbies I've only heard a few, but they seem to be mixed at best. Are they better than a 60 year old original in good nick or rebuilt? Who knows? Either way, with the one in the pic, you'd still need a choke cable.

    Then again a couple of period SU's, or a small sidedraft on an Autobleu manifold would look nice too............
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    Hi Guys,
    Still covering old ground but this Carby has been found in the pile. It has the autochoke but no other numbering to tell me if it is the right one. Ideas and thoughts?
    Thanks
    Paul
    Attachment 99242Attachment 99243
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    Quote Originally Posted by G4ME View Post
    Yep! Looks like a carby to me......
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    No stabs?

    Looks like a Solex 32 PDIST to me, used on the R1130 and early R1132, likely with a broken bi-metallic spring under the autochoke housing.
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    I had always thought that the best thing to do with an automatic choke was to avoid it & have a manual one (or nothing & rely on the accelerator pump as Simon suggests). Not quite original but not wildly not-original either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    I had always thought that the best thing to do with an automatic choke was to avoid it & have a manual one (or nothing & rely on the accelerator pump as Simon suggests). Not quite original but not wildly not-original either.
    Hi
    Back in the days when I had some of these cars and some other brands too, I just tinkered with the carbys and auto chokes till they worked well. After all the manufacturers probably put thousands of man hours into making them work well when new, so it is not just a lost cause. The problem usually then, was the attitude that auto chokes on FOREIGN cars were sh*t anyway like any new fancy idea that Holdens did not have
    I do believe most cars I owned worked well after fixing them by the book and then adjusting the position of the setting a little to match my modest cold weather here abouts. There are usually several markings which can be a guide and a minute with a screw driver to loosen the clamp and turn a little. Not rocket science.
    Cheers Jaahn
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    Dear Jaahn

    Your basic point ( $$$ invested by manufacturer to get it right ) is valid, although a lot of people are very rude about the automatic chokes on Dauphine and 4CV, so there are probably two sides to it

    Any chance of a few paragraphs on "automatic chokes for dummies" ( i.e. for the non mechanic )?

    Andrew

    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi
    Back in the days when I had some of these cars and some other brands too, I just tinkered with the carbys and auto chokes till they worked well. After all the manufacturers probably put thousands of man hours into making them work well when new, so it is not just a lost cause. The problem usually then, was the attitude that auto chokes on FOREIGN cars were sh*t anyway like any new fancy idea that Holdens did not have
    I do believe most cars I owned worked well after fixing them by the book and then adjusting the position of the setting a little to match my modest cold weather here abouts. There are usually several markings which can be a guide and a minute with a screw driver to loosen the clamp and turn a little. Not rocket science.
    Cheers Jaahn

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    Auto chokes, and six-volt systems are very similar. When in good nick, and unmolested by "experts" they can function well. But when fiddled with beyond their designed for range they can just be a nuisance.

    Although, with that particular R8 Solex, the bi-metallic spring is subject to age related malfunction. Also being a hot air device, I'm guessing it also didn't conform to certain operational parameters, hence the change to a water heated choke on the later R8/10. Then they just binned the whole auto choke thing (excepting certain 16TS which where equipped also could suffer from warping plastic auto choke issues).
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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    My wife's Dauphine G has the original carby fitted with the hot air auto choke mechanism that works quite well. If you can find an original carb in reasonable order all will be fine, but given the circumstances, perhaps the Ebay item with the manual choke might be your best choice.
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    "Any chance of a few paragraphs on "automatic chokes for dummies" ( i.e. for the non mechanic )?
    Andrew"


    Hi Andrew
    I have not adjusted a choke for a long time but happy to try. Perhaps it can be a collaborative discussion !

    I could add first that the early Rennos did not have an accelerator pump so pumping the pedal before starting will not help them much. But if an automatic choke is fitted and working then you must put the pedal to the floor, then release it, first before starting, to enable the choke to reset to the cold start position. The throttle is then held open the correct amount by the choke mechanism too. The same applies to a manual choke too.

    The purpose of the auto choke(same as manual) is twofold; first it provides a very rich fuel mixture to get it going and second to set the throttle open a bit to a fast idle position. Both these things are important to be able to start from cold and then when it starts, the extra fuel and extra idle speed have to be quickly reduced so the engine can run well without flooding. After running properly the auto choke will then gradually cut back the extra fuel and speed at a rate which is determined by the ambient temperature. The colder it is the more choke it puts on and the longer it takes to come off.

    The early Rennos did not have a flap/spindle choke but had chokes which supplied the extra fuel and extra air through some ports in the carby body which sucked the fuel from the bowl and mixed it with extra air and supplied it down below the throttle. Basically a very rich mixture added to the normal mixture. The amount of extra air/fuel mixture was controlled by a rotating disc which had holes to uncover ports in the carby body. The extra fuel flow and the air flow was controlled by the size of the starter jet and the holes. These must be unmollested. The Solex manual bistarter chokes worked similarly.

    The way the auto choke was set on was by a bimetallic coil spring. When cold the spring tension turned the disc to uncover the ports. As the spring was heated it uncoiled to some extent and the disc turned back to progressively cover the holes until they are fully shut. The bimetal spring in these models was heated by hot air heated in the exhaust manifold, sucked through small tubes Note that the exhaust gasses were not used directly but just clean air heated by a loop of tube in the exhaust. So the tubes need to be intact and clear and the fittings not stripped or cross threaded etc. The bimetal spring suffers from age and stress so I guess that will be a problem.
    Cheers Jaahn
    Last edited by jaahn; 21st August 2017 at 12:27 AM.

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