Renault 843 - Rocker Arm Shaft Support Needed
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Thread: Renault 843 - Rocker Arm Shaft Support Needed

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Renault 843 - Rocker Arm Shaft Support Needed

    Frank Gigler has made a subscription request to AussieFrogs, but hasn't heard back yet. In the meantime, he's asked if I would post his question for him.

    Frank has a Renault 843 cross-flow engine with a broken rocker shaft support. It's the one closest to the flywheel (rear in his Lotus Europa S2), and it's dowel pin is on the intake side. He's looking for... 1) the correct Renault part number, 2) a replacement part, and 3) a link to downloads for the workshop and parts manuals.

    Does anyone here have a correct spare part that's in good, servicable condition that they're willing to sell? Or at least the correct part number? Frank is in the USA where Renault parts are scarce and hard to find, so a good Renault parts source, preferably one fluent in English, would also be helpful.

    Scraps of info he's found so far include the following 807 Rocker Shaft Support part numbers. He's hoping the 843 numbers are the same... if not, then he's got nothing at the moment.

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    05 56 319 700 - 807 Rocker Shaft Support at the timing chain end.
    05 56 319 500 - 807 Rocker Shaft Support at the flywheel end... ie, the one he needs.

    To be clear, he needs an 843 Rocker Shaft Support, flywheel end, with it's dowel on the intake side.

    Thanks for any help you can provide.

    Regards,
    Tim Engel

  2. #2
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    Thank you Tim. I have just been admitted to the forum. As Tim has indicated I am looking for Renault part 05 56 319 500. Any help is appreciated.

    Frank

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    Tim have you got some pictures of broken/ needed part ? I have a bunch of the cross flow stuff but not sure about the part numbers .

    Manic GT Southampton Ontario Canada

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I have a whole bunch of Renault crap that anyone can have for the price of postage. The rocker arm support blocks are fairly interchangeable, no need to get the exact same one. The only constraint is that it has the locating collar shoulder machined in the base. Of the blocks I have here, I have two that have broken off bits off the end where the split pin went (this split pin is there to lock the rocker shaft). I assume a common problem since the hole is very close to the edge of the block.

    Well,, perhaps even it doesn't have the shoulder machined you could machine it, but I imagine it may not be as easy as it sounds.

    What I found was a common problem is that the rocker shafts develop wear because of the sideways thrust of the rocker arms, which are pushed off centre a bit by the pushrods and cocks a bit sideways on the shafts. In time, the shafts wear unevenly and they are a pain in the dorongo to fix. The rocker arms themselves develop uneven wear in the bores as well. I had mine honed oversize (a few thou) and then the rocker shafts were steel sprayed and reground to match. This means the shafts are a bit oversize now to keep the correct oil clearance, which in turn meant I had to have the blocks re-honed oversize to match the shafts.

    Let us know how you go, pretty sure we'll find you the parts you need.
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    Here is a picture of the damaged support.

    Renault 843 - Rocker Arm Shaft Support Needed-img_20170623_114130712.jpg

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Yours is a bit more dramatic than mine. They usually lose the little side where the split pin goes at the end of the rocker shaft.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Thanks to Ray (geckoeng) this part is on its way to my garage!

    Renault 843 - Rocker Arm Shaft Support Needed-20170628_100353.jpg
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  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger!
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    It is lovely to see real car camaraderie at work.

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    It truly is a beautiful thing!

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    Frank, what do you chaps in the USA do for old Renault parts normally?
    I can't imagine you can just pop down to the local Pep Boys or whatever it is called.

    John.

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    Hah, Pep Boys, too funny.

    I tried an engine builder in Illinois, a Renault Alpine shop in Canada and a ship salvage company in Chicago to no avail before I registered here and found the part in two days.

    Frank

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    Ya gotta hunt where the game is, hihi!

    John
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    I am returning to this thread in complete embarrassment.
    After the generous help of the forum members, and Ray in particular in sending me the part, I had one day of pride in getting my Gordini motor running again. Then when I pulled the valve cover to re-torque the head bolts this evening, I noticed that I had split all three of the rocker shaft brackets that accept the bolts to attach the valve cover with the studs I had screwed into them!

    Apart from feeling like a complete idiot I am now looking for three of the same parts that Ray provided me. If there are any for sale out there please let me know.

    Thank you, and knowingly deserving of the tadpole status,

    Frank

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    COL
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    Hi Fgigler

    I would be investigating why they have a crack in them as I have never seen or heard of this.
    Regards Col

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    Looks like the bolts are bottoming out and pushing the threaded part out when torqued .use shorter bolts maybe ,looks like that section doubles as an oil gallery ,have a look down there were the bit is broken off to see if the bolt has been hitting ,im thinking the alloy cover would crack before this casting. Pugs

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    Likewise Col. Never heard or seen of this in my engineering life time.
    Seriously Fgigler, you have a mounting problem or something is over-stressing the valve actuating mechanism.
    Phil


    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Hi Fgigler

    I would be investigating why they have a crack in them as I have never seen or heard of this.

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    This looks like my R16TS cylinder head.
    Is it the same ??
    Phil



    Quote Originally Posted by fgigler View Post
    Here is a picture of the damaged support.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugwash View Post
    Looks like the bolts are bottoming out and pushing the threaded part out when torqued .use shorter bolts maybe ,looks like that section doubles as an oil gallery ,have a look down there were the bit is broken off to see if the bolt has been hitting ,im thinking the alloy cover would crack before this casting. Pugs

    I believe my initial problem was just this, the supplied bolts bottomed out in the first one I broke, acted as a puller, and snapped the entire top off of the bracket.

    This time I used studs with 10mm of threading on one end and 25mm on the other. Between the threaded ends the stud is not threaded. The aftermarket rocker cover is a tight squeeze between the alternator and distributor so it was much easier to put the cover on before fitting the studs, consequently I could not see the brackets as I was turning in the studs. I believe what happened is that, in order to get the stud in far enough that I had access to threading above the valve cover, that I screwed them in beyond their threading. This I believe means that a wider than the threaded portion of the stud was screwing into the brackets, slowly causing them to expand and then over widen and crack apart. None of this was noticeable while I was screwing in the studs.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by R8philSA View Post
    This looks like my R16TS cylinder head.
    Is it the same ??
    Phil
    I believe they are the same. The engine is from an R17G.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Hi,

    So, do you need 3 pedestals with the threaded stud holes? I can help.

    Frans.
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    Hi,

    So, do you need 3 pedestals with the threaded stud holes? I can help.

    Frans.
    Yes I do. However one of the earlier posters responded that he could supply a set and I am awaiting his response and contact information.

    Again I am amazed at how efficient this forum is!

    Thank you for responding and if I can't make things work out with the other member I will send you a pm with my contact information.

    Frank
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    Could you fit a nut on the bolt ,so it pulls up against a flat surface and dousnt expand the bracket ,is it possible that the alloy cover is expanding ,,putting even more pressure on what appears to be a brittle cast iron ,casting ,the grainey look of the brake and the rust on that first example ,makes it look like cast iron to me ,but i cant imagine why it would have been used there as everything else appears to be alloy ,ps cant see steel cracking like that ,its a bit of a mystery ,pugs

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugwash View Post
    Could you fit a nut on the bolt ,so it pulls up against a flat surface and dousnt expand the bracket ,is it possible that the alloy cover is expanding ,,putting even more pressure on what appears to be a brittle cast iron ,casting ,the grainey look of the brake and the rust on that first example ,makes it look like cast iron to me ,but i cant imagine why it would have been used there as everything else appears to be alloy ,ps cant see steel cracking like that ,its a bit of a mystery ,pugs
    Hah! That was my alternative plan with the shorter studs -- before I custom ordered the ones that are too long. Lesson learned, should have gone the easier route and just put on some jam nuts to prevent the stud from turning in too far!

    Thanks again for all of the help!

  24. #24
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    Oh yeah, and it is cast.

  25. #25
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    I would like to make a public thank you to Schlitzaugen who scavenged through his parts bin to find these brackets for me. Thank you all for your help and patience with my mechanical ineptitude. Ray, I promise that I won't continue to treat this gem like a Ford tractor

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