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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Steve Turner's Avatar
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    Default 4CV Motors

    I'm interested to know what motors people have put into their 4CVs, both in Australia and world-wide. Can anyone enlighten me of swaps (other than Dauphine Gordinis, as I have knowledge of that one). I'd like to know just how wild some of those swaps might be.

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    I seem to recall that a bloke in England fitted his with a Subaru boxer engine, but couldn't get it passed for a roadworthy certificate.

    There's a bloke in France who has fitted a Judson supercharger to his standard motor. Has anyone attempted this in OZ? If so, what was the result? The supercharged car in France seems to go very well.

    Thanks,
    Steve
    Currently: 06 Peugeot 307 HDI Wagon 61 Renault 4CV Gordini (Kermit) 74 R16TS

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    any of the Sierra based engines - R8, 10, R12, 1.4 virage etc are relatively easy and popular swaps.
    Most people if they do that convert the front end to the disc brakes etc off an R8 or 10.

    There are a few R16 TS engine ones getting about but they take a bit more work related to the cooling and exhaust systems primarily.

    there's going to be a good selection to view in Griffith shortly!!
    KB


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    Fellow Frogger! Steve Turner's Avatar
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    Thanks for that. Yes, looking forward to Griffith. Doesn't someone in Tassie have a 4CV with an R5 engine in it, or am I just dreaming that?
    Currently: 06 Peugeot 307 HDI Wagon 61 Renault 4CV Gordini (Kermit) 74 R16TS

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    That would be Peter D-G. He has several toys, I am not sure which one he will bring along though.

    Every day when I wake up I reach up in the darkness with my eyes shut and if I cannot feel anything that resembles a wooden lid I know it will be a good day. No lid today.

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    Fellow Frogger! Steve Turner's Avatar
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    Thanks Graham - that's the one I remembered. What a beast!

    Cheers,
    Steve
    Currently: 06 Peugeot 307 HDI Wagon 61 Renault 4CV Gordini (Kermit) 74 R16TS

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Turner View Post
    Thanks Graham - that's the one I remembered. What a beast! Cheers, Steve
    AFAIK Peter is bringing the 4cvg. Alan Moore will presumably bring "NOT 750". See you there.

    My 4CV has a big bore 760 engine by accident, standard otherwise.

    Attached is a UK hillclimb car.... Standard 330 transmission, so he must drive it smoothly.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 4CV Motors-renault-4cv-1565cc-1956-3.jpg   4CV Motors-renault-4cv-1565cc-1956-2.jpg  
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Steve Turner's Avatar
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    Struth! What on earth is that motor from? Thanks John.

    Cheers,
    Steve
    Currently: 06 Peugeot 307 HDI Wagon 61 Renault 4CV Gordini (Kermit) 74 R16TS

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    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Turner View Post
    Struth! What on earth is that motor from? Thanks John.

    Cheers,
    Steve
    16TS with a set of webers. Just your basic Alpine/Gordini set up.
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  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! Steve Turner's Avatar
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    Thanks David, from a Tadpole. It's obvious that I've got a lot to learn.

    All the best,
    Steve
    Currently: 06 Peugeot 307 HDI Wagon 61 Renault 4CV Gordini (Kermit) 74 R16TS

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Steve Turner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    AFAIK Peter is bringing the 4cvg. Alan Moore will presumably bring "NOT 750". See you there.

    My 4CV has a big bore 760 engine by accident, standard otherwise.

    Attached is a UK hillclimb car.... Standard 330 transmission, so he must drive it smoothly.
    Hi John,

    The humour wasn't lost on me. Just was amazed at what a big motor had been stuffed into such a small space! Therefore didn't acknowledge your joke. Somebody earlier made a comment that a Webber twin draught carbie didn't add much to performance in a 4CV - just made the exhaust note sound better. I'd have to agree. I can't feel the second throat open, whereas I certainly could in my 1970 Corolla, many years ago.

    Frankly, I'm puzzled. Kermit seems to have a legendary reputation, but I find him to be a bit of a slug in comparison to other cars I've owned. Certainly, he will scream his tits off at 130 kmh, and it's obvious that there's a lot of pedal left. M. O. got him up to an indicated 155 kmh on a rear-hub driven electronic speedometer, albeit with a worn head, and I've caught up with him since I've had the motor completely rebuilt with all NOS parts, and he has told me that the motor sounds so much stronger than when he owned the car. I expect that Kermit might be able to hit the magical 160 kmh mark, and that'd be great for a car of such little capacity.

    However, I have read on this site of 4CV owners claiming that they could burn off Mini Cooper Ss, and that one owner could lift the front wheels a matchbook height off the ground. Kermit couldn't do either.So, am I being bullshitted , or am I driving him too conservatively?

    All the best,
    Steve
    Currently: 06 Peugeot 307 HDI Wagon 61 Renault 4CV Gordini (Kermit) 74 R16TS

  11. #11
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Kermit is Dauphine Gordini, Ventoux engine. So he's lively with 40-50 bhp compared with the 21 or so of my standard 4CV. The 16/weber cars, some with warm cams and later gearboxes, probably have at least double to even treble the power of Kermit for much the same weight.

    Kermit isn't fire-breathing, but would be a great thrash on the right road. What brakes are fitted??

    You'll see a few interesting cars at the Muster, with their very knowledgeable owners.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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    Fellow Frogger! Steve Turner's Avatar
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    Hi John,

    R10 discs up front, with Floride drums at the rear. So, I'm learning little by little. M. O. had Kermit dyno-tuned and was given a figure of 70 bhp. I'd say that's increased with all the new parts I've bought, as his head was on its way out (Kermit's, not M. O's).

    M. O. says that the gearing works out to be 150 km/h at 6000rpm. Reasonable thinking is that he might rev to 7,000, but that 5,500 would be a reasonable red-line, with occasional bursts to 6,000.

    What I do understand about the car is that it'll completely put to shame modern cars coming up, say Victoria Pass in the Blue Mountains. On the way home from the last Bathurst meet, we got stuck behind some slow-moving modern equipment, so I knocked Kermit back to second, and we stormed up the pass, leaving all of the modern cars in our wake. Must've been quite a sight for them.

    We've also taken a fang along the Old Pacific Highway between Sydney and Newcastle, and again, modern vehicles couldn't maintain the pace along the twisty sections. Kermit just corners flat at any speed, so the only concern when motoring quickly into a bend is the thought of your own mortality. That's quite a buzz!

    I think I get it now. Don't expect too much in the acceleration stakes, but give 'em hell on the windy, twisty bits.

    All the best,
    Steve
    Currently: 06 Peugeot 307 HDI Wagon 61 Renault 4CV Gordini (Kermit) 74 R16TS

  13. #13
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Brakes should be adequate then, for the weight. Those rear drums are 9", same diameter as FJ Holden, but Kermit is a wee bit lighter.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Steve Turner's Avatar
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    Adequate is a good description. Just adequate is better. Barely adequate is probably even more accurate. Screaming STOP!!! is probably where I'm at just at the moment.
    Last edited by Steve Turner; 3rd April 2017 at 08:55 PM.
    Currently: 06 Peugeot 307 HDI Wagon 61 Renault 4CV Gordini (Kermit) 74 R16TS

  15. #15
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    If I understand it, you aren't happy with the brakes? They ought to be very good with that spec, if set up properly. Personally, I'd prefer discs all around though. Does the car still have the pressure limiting valve at the back? More discussions at Griffith... With luck there will be 4CVs with standard brakes, others with big drums (Dauphine or Floride) and a few with R8/R10 discs all around.

    See you there...
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  16. #16
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    A few things:

    Yes you'll see my 4CVG at Griffith. I had hoped to bring the R8 but it has a motor with a low compression cylinder. Regrettably it will be without its camber compensator as I'm redesigning the mount.

    Kermit had my R8 956cc R1130 front discs fitted initially (as well as my transaxle) when Colin built it. I was getting out of the Kermit style spec (basically Dauphine-Gordini bits but with front discs) & beginning the more major conversion, so Colin got my old bits.

    I found such brakes to be good but you do have to press hard - as with any unboosted set-up employing discs (maybe that's why Colin fitted that BMW booster at the rear). I also found the motor snorted the beastie along satisfyingly. No idea what top speed mine could do as it was geared down a bit with 185/65-13 tyres (MXF Michelin which I liked; I put them on my warm Moke as well). I didn't have any difficulty with brisk highway passing.

    The R5A/G engine in my beastie was initially standard & after fiddling it had 65 Kw at the wheels (on that dyno, on that day). But a very nice conversion is a mildly warmed 1.4 (single sidedraught, cam, compression, extractor & so forth). My R8 & Djet have gone down that path & have 40-45 kw at the wheels. Each is a nicely torquey motor which will rev out happily to about 6,500 (past peak power but which is worth going up to to drop the next gear up right into the sweet spot on the power curve). Were anyone to be contemplating a "non-bananas" re-engining of a 4CV, then I think that this is a nice path to choose.

    Re the 330 transaxle: the major danger seems to be roaring take-offs in first. I avoid these, although moderately fierce third gear acceleration on country roads is common.

    I happily acknowledge simply plagiarising the 'NOT 750' number plate on my beastie from Alan's beastie.

    see you at Griffith

    cheers! Peter

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