R8/R10 Hub Assemblies
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Thread: R8/R10 Hub Assemblies

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Default R8/R10 Hub Assemblies

    Does anyone know if R8 and R10 hub assemblies are interchangeable?
    I checked in my books and there are some R10 hub assemblies that share common numbers with certain R8/R8G's.

    The stub axles on the project R8 have some nicks and thread damage and I'd like to swap them over for the R10 ones if they fit. I'm already using the R10 steering rack; new steering arms from mecaparts; new balljoints so it really should be OK as long as the steering angles weren't changed between the models?

    I'm not sure which stub axles are on the R8 presently. They are bare so I can measure the thickness, but the inner bearing was destroyed getting it off. These stub axles have the large castellated nut on them and appear to be tapered as opposed to stepped. I'm aware the earlier R8 ones were stepped and had smaller bearings on a thinner stub axle.

    The R10 ones are not completely off the car yet and still have the inner bearings on (what a pain!), so all I can do at present is compare the outer bearings. I will be buying new bearings anyhow, regardless what assemblies I use. the R10 ones use a more conventional "flat" nut and washer, with a cap over the top that the split pin passes through.

    I can put the Chassis # of the R8 up tonight but the car was a bit of a bitsa so that may or may not help. It is registered as a '64 R1132 but the roof c pillar doesn't appear to match that theory as per the resto thread.

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    Confirmation the hub assemblies are usable from the R10 would aid my quest, and allow me to proceed to bearing purchase stage.

    Cheers
    Kevin
    KB


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    I'm using R8 bearings on R10 uprights and hubs if that's any help, to me that would say they are interchangeable.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using aussiefrogs mobile app

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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    The earlier R8 R1130 models have shorter stub axles than the '64 onward R1132. I haven't looked up the parts books, but I believe the later R8 and R10 hub assemblies are the same.l
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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    I think they are narrower too Alan. My green R1132 I believe has the smaller stub axle assemblies as the car was just before the changeover.
    KB


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    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore View Post
    The earlier R8 R1130 models have shorter stub axles than the '64 onward R1132. I haven't looked up the parts books, but I believe the later R8 and R10 hub assemblies are the same.l
    That's my understanding. The later cars have slightly longer stub axles and the inner bearing has a spacer built in to the inner casting. The early cars (R1130 like mine) have the same stub axles as R1062 (later 4CV) and Dauphine and slightly shorter hubs as a result, and use the same wheel bearings.
    JohnW

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    So, it comes down to a comparison of the bearings. If they interchange the arms interchange.
    I was more worried about steering angles, but no one has raised that so maybe they didn't change.

    I haven't touched the R10 since the weekend, largely weather related so it is sitting there with the inner bearings still stuck on the stub axles; one assembly off the car (but with one of the tie rod ends still attached) and one assembly as above but still stuck on the upper balljoint taper and on the car. Tried the double hammer trick, soaking it in WD40 and rostoff, a couple of tapered breaker type bars. If anyone has any ideas let me know.
    KB


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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    So, it comes down to a comparison of the bearings. If they interchange the arms interchange.
    I was more worried about steering angles, but no one has raised that so maybe they didn't change.

    I haven't touched the R10 since the weekend, largely weather related so it is sitting there with the inner bearings still stuck on the stub axles; one assembly off the car (but with one of the tie rod ends still attached) and one assembly as above but still stuck on the upper balljoint taper and on the car. Tried the double hammer trick, soaking it in WD40 and rostoff, a couple of tapered breaker type bars. If anyone has any ideas let me know.
    I use a tool similar to this Univesal Ball Joint Puller Balljoint Breaker Splitting Tool Puller TOOLS 03691 | eBay It puts a bit of pre-load on the taper and then a few taps with a couple of hammers and the joint comes apart.

    Some tapers can be a real bugger to get apart.
    Regards Col

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    If the inner bearing sits flush against the inner part of the stub axle and you can't see a slight spacer built in to the inner part to shift the rollers 2-3 mm outwards it is the early one. I think that later inner bearing is unique to Renault, whereas the old ones are BSC-available, or cheap on ebay from China if I recall.

    When you get the bearing off, check its number - 30204 I think - and post a photo. It's quite diagnostic. I'm just home from OS and will check some numbers.

    I guess it goes without saying that you'd prefer the later type for this car!
    JohnW

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    I use a tool similar to this Univesal Ball Joint Puller Balljoint Breaker Splitting Tool Puller TOOLS 03691 | eBay It puts a bit of pre-load on the taper and then a few taps with a couple of hammers and the joint comes apart.

    Some tapers can be a real bugger to get apart.
    I have two of the type shown down th bottom - splitter fork and balljoint ejector. Neither of those worked, but I can try a combination of the ejector one and double hammer while there is tension and penetrating spray perhaps.

    JohnW - I'll try to take a closer look over the weekend now the work week is over.
    KB


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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Yep, I've successfully destroyed both of the above types (and ball joint boots as well) on 404 front steering ball joints.

    However, the two hammers have never failed me.
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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    They are looking pretty similar. The outer bearings match so that's a good sign. Still can't get the inners off but I did manage to hacksaw through the stem on one of the tierod ends and then push the stem out of the hub assembly so that is clear. John, from your description it looks like the R8 one (the nice silver one below) is a late one.

    The other hub assembly is still in the car courtesy of the top balljoint, It's not 48 years old as it has been replaced in its lifetime, but it must be close!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R8/R10 Hub Assemblies-dscn2959.jpg   R8/R10 Hub Assemblies-dscn2958.jpg  
    KB


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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Well, Renault factory manuals are like the "peace of God" which "passeth all understanding"....

    I have three books, one early, just R1130, one up to Rll32 oval plate 72955 and one for all R1130, R1132 and R1136 models. Numbers have been superceded and changed from one book to the next in this area and the "distribution" of different stub axle numbers is different between the books, perhaps reflecting some parts being completely superceded. Good grief.

    Anyway, the outer nut and washer arrangement proves nothing as the outer bearing and thread is the same for all of them, and who knows what earlier owners have done. I'd expect that the funny combination of "small nut" and the funny little "wrap around" washer suggests the later type of stub axle.

    However, I have two later stub axles (for my upgrade if I ever were to have trouble) and one early one from heaven knows where (again "perhaps"!) so have measured them up! The early stub axle has a diameter of 20 mm at the inner bearing and a length of about 80 mm. This is 4CV/Dauphine, except fo for the early R1060 axles which are tiny. The later stub axle has a diameter at the inner bearing of 22 mm and a length of about 85 mm. Quite a lot more substantial, not that I've ever had a problem. All of these stub axles have a diameter of 14 mm for the large end of the tapered hole that accepts the ball joint shafts. This is a different diameter from what is shown for the two variants in my early R8 book and the later books don't show a diameter. Heaven knows. Perhaps.

    Anyway that is plenty for you to work out which you have. AFAIK the steering geometries are all the same, but I stand to be corrected on that one.

    What do you mean about the C pillar being different? Does it have any ornamentation, or holes for ornamentation? If holes, is it two or three?

    What is the oval plate number, out of interest?

    Cheers
    JohnW

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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    By the C pillar comment I mean it has the rectangular R10 style plate rather than the slim chrome "boomerang" that you expect a '64 to have.
    Oval plate number is 119137
    KB


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    Apparently my R1130 was plain but the first (and only other) owner bought and fitted the boomerangs. My mother's 1965 R8 1100 had them. I guess an earlier owner perhaps? He'd have had to fill the C pillar third hole if he replaced the boomerangs.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Correct, an R1130 shouldn't have the boomerangs.
    I seem to recall Trevor Wise either doing the same or buying a car that had had the same thing done way back when, mentioned on the RCCA Facebook page recently (as in last 6-12 months). Would've been quite a pain on a relatively new car as it means peeling back the roof lining to be able to get the back of the emblems.

    In my case, I've speculated in my resto thread that it has either had a new roof or the c pillars modified perhaps. Possible accident damage perhaps. There are strange sheets welded on there either side that are not original.
    KB


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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Sounds like a repair, doesn't it? Wow. Rollover??

    My boomerangs actually press into spring clips, so the lining would not have been touched. I actually have a spare pair of new ones (still with minor pitting!) and they have nuts.

    Off to Griffith on Friday.... Must be mad. At least I'm not driving the 4CV.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    So after soaking it with Wurth Rostoff and WD40 every few days I broke the ball joint taper today. I was in the middle of making my own separator when I thought I'd have another crack with the double hammer trick. After a few minutes of double hammers, without success I gave it one almighty thump with the small sledge hammer almost out of frustration. It was a full bodied blow that was either going to knock the front end off the axles stands, or break the taper. Fortunately the latter happened.

    Still couldn't break the taper on the tierod ends once off the car, so I did the same trick as last time - hacksawed through the stem, then pressed it out in the vice with an oversized nut (M16) over the sawn off bit. this then presses it through to the threaded part and allows the nut to be undone and released through that side.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R8/R10 Hub Assemblies-dscn2961.jpg   R8/R10 Hub Assemblies-dscn2960.jpg  
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    KB


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    Great. And what size stub axle is it?
    JohnW

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    You're right John. The outers are std Timken and easy to get. The inners seem more obscure and harder.
    Ken Bailey has bearings but no seals.

    Anyone know where you can get the seals separate in Oz?
    Part number 0855771200 in the Renault book?

    I'll try CBC and bearing industries after Easter but any leads appreciated.
    KB


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    KB,

    I've got some brand new seals at home in Brisvegas, I'm unsure if they will fit your needs though. Can you measure them up and I'll suss it out when I am off-tour..?

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    You're right John. The outers are std Timken and easy to get. The inners seem more obscure and harder.
    Ken Bailey has bearings but no seals.

    Anyone know where you can get the seals separate in Oz?
    Part number 0855771200 in the Renault book?

    I'll try CBC and bearing industries after Easter but any leads appreciated.
    AFAIK, those later R10 inner bearings are unique to Renault.

    I have no idea regarding seals. I imagine they are the same as R8 Gordini from Mecaparts, for example.

    Good luck and Happy Easter!
    JohnW

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Yes, I can get everything from mecaparts. Given the price of postage, I'm trying not to.
    KB


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    What is the easiest way to get the inner bearing of the stub axle ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by R8RX View Post
    What is the easiest way to get the inner bearing of the stub axle ?
    Use a split plate bearing puller behind the seal retainer plate and pull the seal and the bearing off together.
    If you bend the plate it is easily straightened on a flat surface.
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    Quote Originally Posted by potentz View Post
    Use a split plate bearing puller behind the seal retainer plate and pull the seal and the bearing off together.
    If you bend the plate it is easily straightened on a flat surface.
    Thank you very much

    Is it possible to use a caliper holder/brake shield on both sides of the car?

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