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  1. #51
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I doubt you will get an F1 spec 'box in a car at this price point.

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  2. #52
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I doubt you will get an F1 spec 'box in a car at this price point.
    Not having driven the New A110 yet I doubt that you or I can make any serious personal determinations about the effectiveness or otherwise of it's gear-changing system. I simply pointed out that two of the most extreme motor sports in the world use paddle shifts. WRC cars don't use Fi gearboxes either but they are still the preferred option in that genre. Wiggling a stick around in your car is just so passť!
    It's another lovely day! Again!

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Not having driven the New A110 yet I doubt that you or I can make any serious personal determinations about the effectiveness or otherwise of it's gear-changing system. I simply pointed out that two of the most extreme motor sports in the world use paddle shifts. WRC cars don't use Fi gearboxes either but they are still the preferred option in that genre. Wiggling a stick around in your car is just so passť!
    Wow, for someone who laments the end of just about everything antiquated, especially when talking about motor sports, You sure do jump ship quickly when it suits your argument.

    If you don't understand that many drivers of recreational sports cars these days want a clutch and a gear stick, you have not been keeping abreast of what people are saying.

    Jo

  4. #54
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Wow, for someone who laments the end of just about everything antiquated, especially when talking about motor sports, You sure do jump ship quickly when it suits your argument.

    If you don't understand that many drivers of recreational sports cars these days want a clutch and a gear stick, you have not been keeping abreast of what people are saying.

    Jo
    I drove 15 and 18 speed Road Ranger transmissions for a living some years ago and although able to change gear without using the clutch whilst on the move, I reckon I've shifted enough manual gears for several of us. I drive an auto and have for the last six years. I commute from Moorabbin to Port Melbourne in peak hour and back every day. As strange as it seems it takes no longer to complete the round trip in an auto and there is a lot less stick wiggling required, not to mention clutch pumping. Flappy Paddles are the way of the future, certainly a vast improvement on regular slush boxes and I wish I had some!
    It's another lovely day! Again!

  5. #55
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Flappy Paddles are the way of the future, certainly a vast improvement on regular slush boxes and I wish I had some!
    Flappy Paddles are good to "play " with and delude yourself yourself that you are making the best decisions for gear changes.

    However , the fact is, the DSG in auto mode is the nearly always far better at timing the changes and goes through the gears faster and changes at better points.

    I've just come to accept the decisions the manufacturer's software makes about gear changes. The choice I invoke is "sports mode " very occasionally.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I wonder why F1 and WRC cars have paddle shifts? It must be because their drivers are not up to the job of manual shifting, surely?
    Paddle shift is definitely quicker on the race track, traffic light drags etc.

    I would be driving an Alpine for the SATISFACTION AND INVOLVEMENT.

    You know, you see them on the road.
    L - plates are for Learners.
    P - plates are for Paddle shifters....
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  7. #57
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve K View Post
    Paddle shift is definitely quicker on the race track, traffic light drags etc.

    I would be driving an Alpine for the SATISFACTION AND INVOLVEMENT.
    Well you'd have to settle for one less level of involvement.

    Jo

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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Well you'd have to settle for one less level of involvement.

    Jo
    Unlikely!

    I am the customer...

  9. #59
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I am sure the new technology is way better than the old technology (as it is often the case). I just pointed out that there is a difference between what F1 cars/drivers and run of the mill drivers on the road and their cars.

    These days we look at fuel injection systems of the 70s and say how antiquated and primitive they are, but back in the day, they were a quantum leap compared with carbies. It took however a long way to get where we are today but some cars still work fine with their carby. I suspect the paddle shift 'boxes have a similarly long way to go before they will beat hands down all other options in every situation.

    Right now, price is one of the disadvantages. The Alpine (because that's the context of our discussion) brings this expensive option in a car that is supposed to appeal to people who like this kind of toys. At the same time, the car is not aimed at the track where supposedly these 'boxes are worth an extra poofteenth of a second. It is aimed at a quick blast on a secondary road, where such an expensive box is going to make little difference to the enjoyment of the car (if any). Some as you have already seen (and the spin man in the ad admits) say it actually detracts some. In conclusion we want to sell an expensive car to people who want to enjoy driving, but we take away something they might actually enjoy.

    Oh, and by the way, why do they not use these boxes in rally cars?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  10. #60
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post

    Oh, and by the way, why do they not use these boxes in rally cars?
    I assume you mean twin clutch set up.

    I am not sure, but could it be that running straight cut gears and the resultant noise is not a problem in this application?

    As far as I am aware, with straight cut gears you can do flat changes with out the clutch. From what I remember of in car rally footage, they do run sequential gear selection, some with paddle shift others with tall gear lever next to the steering wheel and almost equally tall lever for the handbrake. I seem to recall that I have seen rally cars with both paddles and gear selector
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  11. #61
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Oh, and by the way, why do they not use these boxes in rally cars?
    WRC are not rally cars?
    It's another lovely day! Again!

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    WRC are not rally cars?
    A few people may disagree with you. Including the WRC organizers

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Rally_Championship
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  13. #63
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    A few people may disagree with you. Including the WRC organizers

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Rally_Championship
    Yes been around since 1973 when actually the original Alpine A110 won which is very fitting for this thread
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    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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  14. #64
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    A few people may disagree with you. Including the WRC organizers

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Rally_Championship
    I find it strange that the Championship is called "The World Rally Championship" if no rally cars are involved. What are they using? Gondolas?
    It's another lovely day! Again!

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    What??...company man says the car is aimed at people having a blast on a B-road (the english legend, the mythical english place where all english are Schumacher in a Midget or some other dismal contraption) - I think he even mentions some english place. Which I think is hooning by definition. Exclusive hooning, I'll give you that.
    That's weird, I've been to a mythical place and done a legendary thing without even knowing! But not in a Midget, thank God.
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