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  1. #26
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Anything is possible when the lozenge shaped blinkers occlude objectivity and blind the wearer to reality.

    No doubt, it is a beautiful quirky car.

    Will it be a "game changer" or major seller in it's market segment - Personally I can't see it.
    There might be only 1955 New Alpine aficionados in the entire world, but they reserved 1955 cars in the first week or so of them being released. The car is neither quirky or beautiful. It is a serious sports car designed with the expertise of people who are betting it will emulate the success of Jean Redele's sparkling little cars. They seem to have a lot of the bases covered. It is not intended to be a game changer but a competitor in a market that currently neither of us seem involved in. The "peoples car" blinkers may not let you see that.......

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  2. #27
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Nobody denies any of that, Kim.

    We merely pointed out that the market you speak of starts at half the price of the Alpine.

    Well done on the sales, let's hope it keeps up.

    But you do realise these orders have been placed by people who can afford 1. the price, 2. the wait, 3. the risk the car will disappoint, 4. the space to store the car for the next 40 years hoping the appreciation will go through the roof.

    As for the bases it has covered, let's see what it is up against:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xAVE6V7Zu4
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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  3. #28
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Nobody denies any of that, Kim.

    We merely pointed out that the market you speak of starts at half the price of the Alpine.

    Well done on the sales, let's hope it keeps up.

    But you do realise these orders have been placed by people who can afford 1. the price, 2. the wait, 3. the risk the car will disappoint.
    The market for Porsche Caymans does not start at half the price of an Alpine, or you and I would own a couple each. Get your head around the level of engineering and expertise that has been put into New Alpine. It would not be on the market even in pre-order form unless it came up with the goods. Neither of us has yet driven one and I doubt we will ever be lucky enough to do that, but if a car built by a "New" manufacturer with the backing of the world's fourth largest car manufacturer was going to be a bag of shite, I'd suggest we'd know about it by now and it wouldn't have taken years to get the thing right. You might be disappointed with your New Alpine, I can't wait for the SSS version with the Nissan 3.7L Le Mans motor in it...........
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  4. #29
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I think that would totally kill it (it certainly would for me).

    But I don't think you got my point about the market.

    The market for sports car like the Alpine starts at the lowest price you can buy a car capable of everything the Alpine is capable of. I think the Miata is even cheaper than the BRZ/86, so that is what you are competing against. Like it or not. The market doesn't care about your dreams, legacy, tradition, and so on. They will mercilessly decide with their wallets.

    The people who care about legacy, tradition, etc., have pre-ordered. Let's hope they're not the entire market, or Renault will need to do a lot of re-thinking of the car's price point.

    A lot of companies have been too smart for their own good and have launched products at inappropriate price points and flopped. That doesn't say anything about the product, but rather about the marketing strategy.

    I have so far only expressed doubts. Let's take it up a notch. I say the Renault is overpriced by at least 35k$. The technology they used is nothing to write home about, nor does it come with some fantastic innovation or some such. It is a turbo 1.8L, 250HP car. There are Golfs that will leave it behind. For the same price you can get a GT-R Skyline for god's sake, and take on supercars ten times the price.

    To summarise: 35k$ too much. That is my verdict.

    We'll count the chickens at the end of year.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 9th March 2017 at 11:32 PM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  5. #30
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I think that would totally kill it (it certainly would for me).

    But I don't think you got my point about the market.

    The market for sports car like the Alpine starts at the lowest price you can buy a car capable of everything the Alpine is capable of. I think the Miata is even cheaper than the BRZ/86, so that is what you are competing against. Like it or not. The market doesn't care about your dreams, legacy, tradition, and so on. They will mercilessly decide with their wallets.

    The people who care about legacy, tradition, etc., have pre-ordered. Let's hope they're not the entire market, or Renault will need to do a lot of re-thinking of the car's price point.

    A lot of companies have been too smart for their own good and have launched products at inappropriate price points and flopped. That doesn't say anything about the product, but rather about the marketing strategy. I have so far only expressed doubts. Let's take it up one notch. I say the Renault is overpriced by at least 35k$. The technology they used is nothing to write home about, nor does it come with some fantastic innovation or some such. It is a turbo 1.8L, 250HP car. There are Golfs that will leave it behind. For the same price you can get a GT-R Skyline, for god's sake and take on supercars ten times the price.

    To summarise: 35k$ too much. That is my verdict.

    We'll count the chickens at the end of year.
    Schlitzy, you need a cold shower! The car is all aluminium, FFS. It is not a Japanese would-be clone or imitator. I'm not sure which of the "peoples cars" does 0-100 in 4.5 seconds and any that do would be left for dead by a 46%-54% weight distribution around a track. Last time I looked at a Godzilla it cost $300,000 for a good one, 58,000 Euros for a New Alpine is a measly AUD 87K, a long way from that. The car will be bought, like I said, by discerning people who appreciate quality, performance and handling. The original Alpine 110 was a low powered car with a light body and special performance. The new one is just the same, but, I think, better.
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  6. #31
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Kim, I made my prediction and will see how it goes.

    Meanwhile, you can keep telling yourself whatever you want.

    Aluminium, discerning people, anything you like.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  7. #32
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    The market for Porsche Caymans does not start at half the price of an Alpine, or you and I would own a couple each. Get your head around the level of engineering and expertise that has been put into New Alpine. It would not be on the market even in pre-order form unless it came up with the goods. Neither of us has yet driven one and I doubt we will ever be lucky enough to do that, but if a car built by a "New" manufacturer with the backing of the world's fourth largest car manufacturer was going to be a bag of shite, I'd suggest we'd know about it by now and it wouldn't have taken years to get the thing right. You might be disappointed with your New Alpine, I can't wait for the SSS version with the Nissan 3.7L Le Mans motor in it...........
    Perception is likely to impinge on the Alpine as a substitute for the Porsche variants you mention.

    People buy Porsche for image not for engineering.

    And the rich history of the Alpine means nothing to these buyers.

    So keep dreaming, but I suspect hard cold facts of Sales numbers, will define the new Alpine, in Australia.

    EDIT: The new Alpine will neither please nor disappoint me. It is not the kind of car I'm ever likely to own. Nor is a 86 , BRZ, Boxter or Cayman. However I can hazard a guess as to possible potential Sales , all the same.


    I recently had a drive Benz CLA 45 AMG, which did nothing wrong in handling or performance at all.

    And at my age, given a tattslotto win, I'd probably be looking at something of similar ilk.
    Last edited by robmac; 10th March 2017 at 10:39 AM.
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  8. #33
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    The vid on the other page said it all where he mentioned the were bringing back the brand for more mass produced cars and that this was, just something to get the brand out there.

    Looks the sex.
    Would rent one for a week in Tasmania
    Would park one next to my own A110 if I had one.
    Would put 13" wheels on it just because.

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  9. #34
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Yeah, but if you listen again you will see they don't intend this to be the mass market car, but the future SUV, hybrids, etc. The A110 is just to try and resurrect the name/brand AND THEN, on the back of how this does they will think about the mass markets.

    Mass market? I'll tell you what a mass market car is. The Dacia Logan. That is a mass market car. Go and buy one, bowie, they're clogging up the forecourts all over the place across Australia! Ha! Mass market my arse.

    Even if you didn't pick up on that, I don't think anyone in their right mind would think a car priced at 70k$ is marketed to the masses (or not in Oz, anyway, where the average income is below that and falling).

    Remember the Focus ST? 70k it cost and they only brought here, what? 200? of them, and they were sold before the news hit the media. That was very clever, but keep in mind this is a dominantly english market and a Ford with an ST badge means something for every yob and their dog. And even then, Ford realised they couldn't shove more than a few down yer throat, so they played this "limited edition" trick that works well on english.

    Alpine?! Whadda heck is that? I say they'll be lucky to sell 200 here, but like I said, I don't think they'll even bring it here - so much for mass market. If you will want to have one here, you will have to do the footwork - order, insist, pay for shipping and so on. This is assuming Renault will even bother to get an ADR homologation (or some alternative).

    And like I said, I'll be thrilled to be wrong. Because if I get it wrong, it means we'll see loads of them and soon they'll be on the second hand market cheap as chips (and we'll have the proper manual version as a cheapie for us tight arses). Ha!
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 10th March 2017 at 03:14 PM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  10. #35
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    ah no I agree with you. This car is a marketing exercise.

    Still cool.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
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    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
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  11. #36
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Yeah, but if you listen again you will see they don't intend this to be the mass market car, but the future SUV, hybrids, etc. The A110 is just to try and resurrect the name/brand AND THEN, on the back of how this does they will think about the mass markets.

    Mass market? I'll tell you what a mass market car is. The Dacia Logan. That is a mass market car. Go and buy one, bowie, they're clogging up the forecourts all over the place across Australia! Ha! Mass market my arse.

    Even if you didn't pick up on that, I don't think anyone in their right mind would think a car priced at 70k$ is marketed to the masses (or not in Oz, anyway, where the average income is below that and falling).

    Remember the Focus ST? 70k it cost and they only brought here, what? 200? of them, and they were sold before the news hit the media. That was very clever, but keep in mind this is a dominantly english market and a Ford with an ST badge means something for every yob and their dog. And even then, Ford realised they couldn't shove more than a few down yer throat, so they played this "limited edition" trick that works well on english.

    Alpine?! Whadda heck is that? I say they'll be lucky to sell 200 here, but like I said, I don't think they'll even bring it here - so much for mass market. If you will want to have one here, you will have to do the footwork - order, insist, pay for shipping and so on. This is assuming Renault will even bother to get an ADR homologation (or some alternative).

    And like I said, I'll be thrilled to be wrong. Because if I get it wrong, it means we'll see loads of them and soon they'll be on the second hand market cheap as chips (and we'll have the proper manual version as a cheapie for us tight arses). Ha!
    Schlitzy, I don't understand your pre-occupation with the mass market or lack of it. It is obvious that Alpine are not looking at having an A110 in every driveway around the world, but they do think they might sell a few thousand a year world-wide. The important thing is that the car IS being made and WILL BE made available in RHD. An RS Megane is not everyone's cup of tea, but Australia was the second biggest market in the world for them after France. Who would have picked that?
    Last edited by Kim Luck; 10th March 2017 at 06:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post
    I want one.!!. Anyone know where one might arrange the sale of one's "first born" to raise funds...??

    The Alpine A110 is back: Renault reveals first images of final production car


    Hell




    Hell, i would sell the first born of somebody else if that's what it takes to get one.
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  13. #38
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    They said it will sale in the UK for around 45k pounds on that video, so at current conversion rates that would be $72,842 Australian dollars, assuming all else being equal.

  14. #39
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Plus import tax, GST, road tax, this tax, that tax.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't leave any change from 100k$.

    Yeah, bowie mentioned mass markets, Kim, don't worry about it.

    Surprised to hear about the Megane RS. What about UK? I think they got a lot of them too.

    But that is again a different market. The Megane RS was outstanding value for money and pretty much untouchable for what it was by any other car on the market at the time and at the same price point.

    75k$ is an already crowded place full of toys for big boys. There's plenty to choose from and mainly from well known makers (with a solid name in the Oz market) with a track record of service and support a cut or two above Renault (in Oz).
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  15. #40
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    Alpine will be distributed by it's own network and the word Renault will not appear in the advertising material. Even the engine will have Alpine written on it.
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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    The political and economic pressures on the French car market prevent the makers advertising on performance or maximum speeds. On the road the policing and general congestion destroys the need for performance anyway and concentrates designers' attention on confort and entertainment in the vehicle.
    That doesn't give much of an image overseas of an exciting marque. By sponsoring this Alpine they are creating a car which will be sold in large quantities as a scale model but remain a rarity to real drivers. Exactly what is needed to create an image based on aspiration which can rub off onto the Renault marque and its mass markets globally.
    In that scenario it is important that it priced out of reach to your average hoon. If were not it would be nothing to aspire to, you can have one. So console yourself with a 1/43 model and feel that Renault aren't so bad after all.
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  17. #42
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    The political and economic pressures on the French car market prevent the makers advertising on performance or maximum speeds. On the road the policing and general congestion destroys the need for performance anyway and concentrates designers' attention on confort and entertainment in the vehicle.
    That doesn't give much of an image overseas of an exciting marque. By sponsoring this Alpine they are creating a car which will be sold in large quantities as a scale model but remain a rarity to real drivers. Exactly what is needed to create an image based on aspiration which can rub off onto the Renault marque and its mass markets globally.
    In that scenario it is important that it priced out of reach to your average hoon. If were not it would be nothing to aspire to, you can have one. So console yourself with a 1/43 model and feel that Renault aren't so bad after all.

    It's another lovely day! Again!

  18. #43
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    The political and economic pressures on the French car market prevent the makers advertising on performance or maximum speeds. On the road the policing and general congestion destroys the need for performance anyway and concentrates designers' attention on confort and entertainment in the vehicle.
    That doesn't give much of an image overseas of an exciting marque. By sponsoring this Alpine they are creating a car which will be sold in large quantities as a scale model but remain a rarity to real drivers. Exactly what is needed to create an image based on aspiration which can rub off onto the Renault marque and its mass markets globally.
    In that scenario it is important that it priced out of reach to your average hoon. If were not it would be nothing to aspire to, you can have one. So console yourself with a 1/43 model and feel that Renault aren't so bad after all.
    What??

    Did I just read that a company that lives from making and selling cars would make a car they don't want to sell (not a one-off special in any way) but hope will make people buy their cars? Is that what you're sayin?

    Here's what that is going to achieve:

    Toyota (and everybody else who don't care who buys their cars) are going to sell more cars than you.

    Nah, I think that is just bollocks aimed at the english, because they want everything they own to be "exclusive" (usually pieces of junk with a lot of dead animals and vegetals that belong in a furniture factory not a car).

    By the way, watch the video again and you'll see the company man says the car is aimed at people having a blast on a B-road (the english legend, the mythical english place where all english are Schumacher in a Midget or some other dismal contraption) - I think he even mentions some english place. Which I think is hooning by definition. Exclusive hooning, I'll give you that.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 12th March 2017 at 04:26 AM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  19. #44
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Schlitzy, you need a cold shower! The car is all aluminium, FFS. It is not a Japanese would-be clone or imitator. I'm not sure which of the "peoples cars" does 0-100 in 4.5 seconds and any that do would be left for dead by a 46%-54% weight distribution around a track. Last time I looked at a Godzilla it cost $300,000 for a good one, 58,000 Euros for a New Alpine is a measly AUD 87K, a long way from that. The car will be bought, like I said, by discerning people who appreciate quality, performance and handling. The original Alpine 110 was a low powered car with a light body and special performance. The new one is just the same, but, I think, better.
    I had another look at prices, and you are right (or at least closer to the truth than I was).

    Not sure why however the price difference in the UK (the only similar market where both cars are sold - or they will be side by side) is 50k pounds (projected for the Alpine) to 80k pounds for the GT-R. For some reason that "translates" to 200k AUD for the skyline (don't understand why, because 80k pound should convert to about 130kAUD). I haven't seen 300k AUD, though. The alpine does convert more closely from 50k pounds to about 75k AUD. No idea why they are so sure this conversion will hold (this is the price speculated here) considering the GT-R "converts" from 80k pounds to 200k AUD. On the same scale, the Alpine would land here at around 100k AUD as I predicted disgustedly above.

    Either way, the two cars shouldn't be compared, they are in completely different price brackets, I accept.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 16th March 2017 at 02:00 AM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Renault could do worse by way of promoting the new Alpine than updating the below clip.

    Renault Alpine promo | Videos | Auto Express

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I had another look at prices, and you are right (or at least closer to the truth than I was).

    Not sure why however the price difference in the UK (the only similar market where both cars are sold - or they will be side by side) is 50k pounds (projected for the Alpine) to 80k pounds for the GT-R. For some reason that "translates" to 200k AUD for the skyline (don't understand why, because 80k pound should convert to about 130kAUD). I haven't seen 300k AUD, though. The alpine does convert more closely from 50k pounds to about 75k AUD. No idea why they are so sure this conversion will hold (this is the price speculated here) considering the GT-R "converts" from 80k pounds to 200k AUD. On the same scale, the Alpine would land here at around 100k AUD as I predicted disgustedly above.

    Either way, the two cars shouldn't be compared, they are in completely different price brackets, I accept.
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    And by the way, people say the V6 version of the A310 was not as good as the 807 engined, because of the added weight behind the rear axle, which put it on par with Porsche 911 in the handling problems depratment. Just sayin'.
    Dont care. I want a V6 😜😜😜😜😜😜😜

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackdaniel View Post
    Dont care. I want a V6 
    What is good?
    I am fortunate enough to have both 4 cyl and V6 A310's

    The four is more nimble and flowing in the corners.
    2.5 turns lock to lock says it all.
    Easier to balance in the bendy stuff.
    Good long travel suspension. Comfort and handling. Fab.
    Dare I say it, more Lotus like.

    Yes, in some ways the V6 is more Porsche 911 like being heavier.
    BUT definitely not a widow maker.
    I had my V6 as a daily driver for around 10 years during which it never had a garage.
    Strong and reliable. Big strong gearbox and an understressed engine.
    Lots of potential to modify with more power, brakes and suspension.

    Back on subject, would I have a new A110?
    Maybe if a drive would convince me about a paddle shift? Probably not.
    A manual gearbox? Place my order in a heartbeat.
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  25. #50
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Melbourne, Orstrilia
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    15,691

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve K View Post
    What is good?
    I am fortunate enough to have both 4 cyl and V6 A310's

    The four is more nimble and flowing in the corners.
    2.5 turns lock to lock says it all.
    Easier to balance in the bendy stuff.
    Good long travel suspension. Comfort and handling. Fab.
    Dare I say it, more Lotus like.

    Yes, in some ways the V6 is more Porsche 911 like being heavier.
    BUT definitely not a widow maker.
    I had my V6 as a daily driver for around 10 years during which it never had a garage.
    Strong and reliable. Big strong gearbox and an understressed engine.
    Lots of potential to modify with more power, brakes and suspension.

    Back on subject, would I have a new A110?
    Maybe if a drive would convince me about a paddle shift? Probably not.
    A manual gearbox? Place my order in a heartbeat.
    I wonder why F1 and WRC cars have paddle shifts? It must be because their drivers are not up to the job of manual shifting, surely?
    It's another lovely day! Again!

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