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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! forzamacchi's Avatar
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    Default ebay cylinder head identification?

    Hello All,
    I spotted this cylinder head on ebay.... CYLINDER HEAD FOR RENAULT, aluminum 4 CYL 7700502220 with pump, vintage | eBay

    Just wondering if anyone can ID the model to which it was once connected! Thanks, Ben

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    That is a R12 head (or R8/10 so on). Cast iron 810 engine (or whatever other code they changed it to for various applications). Given that North American R12s had the 807 engine (it was called something else there, I think 843? 844? something like that, either way, totally different alloy block and head) and the fact that the blanking plate at the back doesn't have the temperature sender, I would hazard a guess you guys would have found that head in a R8 or R10 or Floride/Caravelle, something like that.

    Simon will no doubt tell you exactly what it is based on the numbers.

    Is that what you hoped for?
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    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    It's not an R12 head but is a Sierra head.

    The water pump is not the same as an R12 and there aren't any mouldings on the head for the alternator mounts that a R12 would need. The 810/847 motors weren't used in the US R12. The US R12 had a non-crossflow 1647 motor so it wouldn't have come from a US R12.
    A version of the Sierra was used in just about every small Renault built in the 60's, 70's and into the 80's so the possibilities are wide.

    No doubt someone will be able to identify the application.

    Cheers
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    If it were in Oz, I'd say R8 956cc 8-port. The 10 heads were 6-port. And it doesn't have some of the casting protrusions of the 10S or R12 heads.

    I'm heading off shortly or I'd pull the parts books and look for the number. Simon might come through!!

    It's probably worth $100 to have in the cupboard - very unlikely to have cracked or anything, and not old in terms of time on the vehicle. Early R8 blocks were a bit suspect, so (like mine) could have come off one that was replaced by an R8 1100 or R10 engine when the block warped!
    JohnW

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    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Looks like scrap value to me.
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    Definitely rear engine water pump configuration. So got to be R8, R10 or Caravelle.
    The R10 S(uper) and Caravelle S had an 8 port head, as did the 1300 R10.
    Definitely not R12.

    Henry
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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    The number doesn't match my R1130, 1132, or 1136 parts books so I don't think it is off an R8.
    KB


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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    The number doesn't match my R1130, 1132, or 1136 parts books so I don't think it is off an R8.
    That's interesting. Wonder what it is then? Between us, we've eliminated most options! It's a rear engined Renault head though.

    "Someone" needs to get it and measure it up. Combustion chamber volume might help. Simon???
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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Might be Caravelle, Caravelle S?

    I don't have books for those.

    If I get a chance today, I'll check an R10 book. Being in the USA, it could be a strange variant we are not used to.
    KB


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    Not in my Caravelle or Floride S books. Nor my 12, 10, or 8 books. Neither is it in my R15 book for the 1300cc motor. However there are numbers very close for other bits on the head. Just not the same number for the head itself. Even if it is off a US car I think it still will be in the manuals. What ever it is off it should still fit any Sierra motor.

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    Might be Caravelle, Caravelle S?

    I don't have books for those.

    If I get a chance today, I'll check an R10 book. Being in the USA, it could be a strange variant we are not used to.
    That's my suspicion. Slightly different valve size or combustion chambers perhaps. Heads are becoming rare. I'd buy it on spec personally if in USA.
    JohnW

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    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    What about an R5?
    They were sold in the US, had a version of the Sierra engine, and with the gearbox ahead of the motor the configuration would be similar to a rear engine Renault.
    The alternator and water pump would be over the flywheel.
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    Fellow Frogger! forzamacchi's Avatar
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    John.... I'm with you... I am probably going to buy it. Parts are becoming scarcer here. Ben
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    That's my suspicion. Slightly different valve size or combustion chambers perhaps. Heads are becoming rare. I'd buy it on spec personally if in USA.

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    My stab is a 688-06 (R8/10 Auto) head. Definitely not 4,5,6,9,11,12,15.

    The reason the part number isn't in any catalogue is that the cast number is effectively a core part number rather than an actual part number. There will be variations of the core for different models.

    Also (on a totally different topic), is anyone else having "Resource Errors", "502 Error" etc, from my amateur (ie, clueless) efforts it doesn't seem to be at my end, as the few other sites I look at still work. Here it seems that every second, or even first attempt results in an error.
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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Yep, lots of errors although they have gotten better over the last few weeks so definitely AF not you.
    KB


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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    Yep, lots of errors although they have gotten better over the last few weeks so definitely AF not you.
    Cool, thanks. I thought it may have just been me :-)
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    My stab is a 688-06 (R8/10 Auto) head. Definitely not 4,5,6,9,11,12,15.

    The reason the part number isn't in any catalogue is that the cast number is effectively a core part number rather than an actual part number. There will be variations of the core for different models.

    Also (on a totally different topic), is anyone else having "Resource Errors", "502 Error" etc, from my amateur (ie, clueless) efforts it doesn't seem to be at my end, as the few other sites I look at still work. Here it seems that every second, or even first attempt results in an error.
    Hadn't thought of the auto. Good call.

    Yes, re the errors. Getting better, as Kevin noted.

    Cheers
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    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    My stab is a 688-06 (R8/10 Auto) head. Definitely not 4,5,6,9,11,12,15.

    The reason the part number isn't in any catalogue is that the cast number is effectively a core part number rather than an actual part number. There will be variations of the core for different models.

    Also (on a totally different topic), is anyone else having "Resource Errors", "502 Error" etc, from my amateur (ie, clueless) efforts it doesn't seem to be at my end, as the few other sites I look at still work. Here it seems that every second, or even first attempt results in an error.
    Ditto
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  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! forzamacchi's Avatar
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    I ended up buying this thing since it is 8 port and spares are rare in the US without paying through the nose. Now I just need to figure out if its a 956 or 1100 head.

    Sent from my LG-H830 using aussiefrogs mobile app

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    If I was to take a guess I would say it is 1397 head off a Sierra cast block that was found in the North American Alliance also know as a R11. Why I think that is because the away the ports are arranged ??

    Manic GT

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manicgt View Post
    If I was to take a guess I would say it is 1397 head off a Sierra cast block that was found in the North American Alliance also know as a R11. Why I think that is because the away the ports are arranged ?? Manic GT
    Hmm. Water pump the same?
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forzamacchi View Post
    I ended up buying this thing since it is 8 port and spares are rare in the US without paying through the nose. Now I just need to figure out if its a 956 or 1100 head. Sent from my LG-H830 using aussiefrogs mobile app
    Thought you might! I have 956 (R8) and 1108 (10S) heads assembled here, so let me know if you want photos. I might measure the combustion chamber volumes for you.
    JohnW

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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    As Ren-Tin-Tin says in #3 it is an early R12. Note 2 studs on inside of inlet ports. And it may have been sold with generator, as some of the first ones in ZA, as there are no alternator mount positions on plug side, ???????

    Casting numbers mean nothing on Renault parts, as they made different finished parts from the same castings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geckoeng View Post
    As Ren-Tin-Tin says in #3 it is an early R12.
    It isn't Renault 12 (Sierra). No alternator/generator mounting bracket points, different chamber shape, and R8/10 water pump.

    Pics of 12 head attached for comparison.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ebay cylinder head identification?-dsc08889.jpg  
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Hmm. Here are two sets of photos, 3 of a definite 956 8-port head, volume 27cc, valves 26 mm and 31 mm diameter and three others....

    I have always thought that the second head was a 10S head, despite the castings on the side (the threaded sockets are at the water pump end). It has a combustion chamber volume of about 37cc, which fits the 1108 motor from my factory manual's data and the valves are 31 mm and 33 mm head diameter. It does look very like Simon's R12 head photo though and I don't have a 12 manual to check the combustion chamber volume spec. It does have the extra set of studs for the manifold (note Geckoeng's comment) but the 10S had the twin choke Weber too.

    Does this help Forza? You'll note the combustion chamber shape of my 956 head is similar to yours but very different from photos of Simon's R12 and my "other" head, and the exhaust valves are noticeably smaller than the inlets on both yours and my 956.

    These queries always get interesting..... Back to combustion chamber volume at your end I'd suggest.....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ebay cylinder head identification?-r1130-956cc-head-1.jpg   ebay cylinder head identification?-r1130-956cc-head-2.jpg   ebay cylinder head identification?-r1130-956cc-head-3.jpg   ebay cylinder head identification?-maybe-10s-head-37cc-volume-1.jpg   ebay cylinder head identification?-maybe-10s-head-37cc-volume-2.jpg   ebay cylinder head identification?-maybe-10s-head-37cc-volume-3.jpg  

    Last edited by JohnW; 7th March 2017 at 09:38 PM. Reason: Corrected valve size from 16 mm to 26 mm in line 1 of post
    forzamacchi likes this.
    JohnW

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