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  1. #26
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    I looked at my 1397 alliance head and the intake ports look identical to the E-bay pictures ! The 1397 alliance have a larger space between the ports which means that the standard old school 1108 or 1298 intakes do not fit but it may be a good one to adapt a side draft carb to if you are building your own !!

    Manic GT

    Quote Originally Posted by manicgt View Post
    If I was to take a guess I would say it is 1397 head off a Sierra cast block that was found in the North American Alliance also know as a R11. Why I think that is because the away the ports are arranged ??

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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by manicgt View Post
    I looked at my 1397 alliance head and the intake ports look identical to the E-bay pictures ! The 1397 alliance have a larger space between the ports which means that the standard old school 1108 or 1298 intakes do not fit but it may be a good one to adapt a side draft carb to if you are building your own !!

    Manic GT
    Easy to do Side draughts as you say especially when using the older Datsun 1400 inlet manifolds. Very little mods to make them work.





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    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  3. #28
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    Soooo.... in measuring the valve heads I got 32 and 26mm... The head seems like it will clean up quite nicely. I did get a part number off of the water pump if that is any help 4286097.81 ....
    I measured the max width of the combustion chamber and it is 70mm
    ebay cylinder head identification?-20170306_205556.jpgebay cylinder head identification?-20170306_204741.jpg




    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Hmm. Here are two sets of photos, 3 of a definite 956 8-port head, volume 27cc, valves 16 mm and 31 mm diameter and three others....

    I have always thought that the second head was a 10S head, despite the castings on the side (the threaded sockets are at the water pump end). It has a combustion chamber volume of about 37cc, which fits the 1108 motor from my factory manual's data and the valves are 31 mm and 33 mm head diameter. It does look very like Simon's R12 head photo though and I don't have a 12 manual to check the combustion chamber volume spec. It does have the extra set of studs for the manifold (note Geckoeng's comment) but the 10S had the twin choke Weber too.

    Does this help Forza? You'll note the combustion chamber shape of my 956 head is similar to yours but very different from photos of Simon's R12 and my "other" head, and the exhaust valves are noticeably smaller than the inlets on both yours and my 956.

    These queries always get interesting..... Back to combustion chamber volume at your end I'd suggest.....

  4. #29
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    I'll try and figure the actual volume tomorrow... got caught up in tearing down a British 2 stroke engine...... playing both sides of the channel!

    Quote Originally Posted by forzamacchi View Post
    Soooo.... in measuring the valve heads I got 32 and 26mm... The head seems like it will clean up quite nicely. I did get a part number off of the water pump if that is any help 4286097.81 ....
    I measured the max width of the combustion chamber and it is 70mm
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I saw that too....lol..... didn't come to much of a conclusion...
    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post

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    The second link has a suggestion. Don't ask me though, I'm a Cit man.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by forzamacchi View Post
    Soooo.... in measuring the valve heads I got 32 and 26mm... The head seems like it will clean up quite nicely. I did get a part number off of the water pump if that is any help 4286097.81 ....
    I measured the max width of the combustion chamber and it is 70mm
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	94318Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	94319
    Despite my PM to the contrary, Forza, those dimensions you've put up do match my spare 956 head at 26 and 31-32 mm valve heads and 70 mm max on the chamber size. I'll bet when you measure how much oil it takes to fill a combustion chamber fully, you'll get about 27 cc. I'm puzzled though, on the photo, by the small rubber hose poking up at the right side above the end exhaust port. It's at the wrong end of the head, at least compared with my spigot on the head, which is at the end opposite the water pump, near the blanking plate on the front end of the head.

    I'm now really puzzled! I've pulled the cover off the car (UV not wetness protection here) and also pulled out my spare 956 head: bugger, it gets worse.

    My "10S" head that is on the car does indeed have both the extra studs inside the inlet ports (as noted by Geckoeng) and they are unused, with no studs in the upper threaded sockets since I have the original R1130 956cc manifold and carburettor bolted onto it. This head also has the extra lugs on the spark plug side, like an R12 head. The ones at the water pump end are threaded. OK, late model R10 (well, 8S) head might have common features with early R12 heads. This head has been on the car for 29 years now and I very much doubt I have an R12 head by accident (it would have very low compression, not much power and would probably run on kerosene if I had tried it....). It does have the threaded socket for the carby heater hose in the right place, unlike your head.

    So, out with the spare 956 head to double-check the valve head diameters, and they are definitely the same as yours - 26 mm for exhaust and 31-32 mm for inlet. No lugs on the spark plug side etc. All as it should be and the same as yours. But then, checking the position of the small hose fitting for the carburettor throat heater, I've noticed that the threaded socket for the spigot is missing on my spare 956 head!! There is a small (6 mm) hole there, at the end opposite the water pump (same as your head actually) but it is not the typical tapered thread socket to take the screw-in and very corrodable (and usually corroded!) aluminium spigot for the carby heater hose. The other end of the carby heating comes direct from a spigot on the water pump.

    Then, I know that my brand new, spare 32 PDIST carby doesn't have the heater hose throat either, so some of these cars didn't heat the throat at all. My 956 spare head comes from an Australian-supplied car though.

    Finally, yours has the extra two threaded sockets at the inside of the inlet ports, like my "10S" head and R12 heads. Hmm.

    I'm digging out my P.R. 818 manual now. Maybe red wine too.... Ah! There is one diagram (page 15.70) for the R1136 head/carby (is that the 8S?) with a twin choke carby and showing a carby throat heating hose that winds around the carby body some 180 degrees and enters the head where your stump of rubber hose is located, near the water pump. Did the 8S come to America? Did the US cars have the 8 port head and twin choke Weber? I've no idea and have exhausted my knowledge, and then some.

    Probably not critical. Back to the combustion chamber volume I reckon.

    Cheers

    (That British 2-stroke shouldn't have taken long. Few parts TO dismantle..... But all seized and curious sizes no doubt.)
    Last edited by JohnW; 7th March 2017 at 08:36 PM.
    JohnW

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  9. #34
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    Well, I'm learning a bit today!

    The photos show my two spare heads, on the left what I believe is a 10S head and to the right my spare 956 R1130 head.

    Quite a few things to note.

    1. The 10S head has a tapered thread for a spigot in the same place as Forza's head. The "10S" head on my car has the threaded socket at the other end, near the blanking plate, like every R8/R10 I've seen, or at least looked closely at, in Australia.

    2. The 956 head lacks the spigot hole at either end.

    3. The 10S head has the extra stud holes inside the inlet ports (which aren't used on my car with its 8-port head manifolding).

    4. The two heads show quite a bit of evolution in design, notably in internal finning/reinforcement quite dramatically developed on the 10S (left hand head) and rather larger valve springs (about 29 mm OD compared with about 24 mm OD and larger wire diameter).

    5. The 10S valves seem more inclined from the vertical than on the 956 head.

    I'm hoping someone knows rather more than I realise I do!

    "Very sad case" might be all too appropriate...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ebay cylinder head identification?-956-1108-heads-1.jpg   ebay cylinder head identification?-956-1108-heads-2.jpg  
    JohnW

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    Very sad case......

  10. #35
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    Ben you must of got the head before I saw the add because the 2 remaining heads are the 1397 head .

    Sorry if I caused any confusion ! [
    Manic GT

    QUOTE=manicgt;1506599]I looked at my 1397 alliance head and the intake ports look identical to the E-bay pictures ! The 1397 alliance have a larger space between the ports which means that the standard old school 1108 or 1298 intakes do not fit but it may be a good one to adapt a side draft carb to if you are building your own !!

    Manic GT[/QUOTE]
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Well, I'm learning a bit today!

    The photos show my two spare heads, on the left what I believe is a 10S head and to the right my spare 956 R1130 head.

    Quite a few things to note.

    1. The 10S head has a tapered thread for a spigot in the same place as Forza's head. The "10S" head on my car has the threaded socket at the other end, near the blanking plate, like every R8/R10 I've seen, or at least looked closely at, in Australia.

    2. The 956 head lacks the spigot hole at either end.

    3. The 10S head has the extra stud holes inside the inlet ports (which aren't used on my car with its 8-port head manifolding).

    4. The two heads show quite a bit of evolution in design, notably in internal finning/reinforcement quite dramatically developed on the 10S (left hand head) and rather larger valve springs (about 29 mm OD compared with about 24 mm OD and larger wire diameter).

    5. The 10S valves seem more inclined from the vertical than on the 956 head.

    I'm hoping someone knows rather more than I realise I do!

    "Very sad case" might be all too appropriate...
    I'll do the volume check tonight. My guess is that it is a 956.... The 8s and 10s never made it to these shores officially....Although....it could be that something made its way up from the Mexican factory? Ben

    The important question is whether it will take a weber side draught manifold

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  12. #37
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    It'll take the Weber I'm sure. There's always a way.... Frans posted about using Nissan 1400 inlet manifolding or something if I recall. I'm just staggered by how much I discovered yesterday! Live and learn they say.

    My manual also shows that they modified the rocker arms over time too, in the shape of the casting and a radius.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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  13. #38
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    And the volume is..... ?
    JohnW

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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    And the volume is..... ?
    Hey John! Work has been wearing me out..so no energy when I get home... Hopefully do a fill up tonight!

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  15. #40
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    Work plus commute eh?
    JohnW

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    Very sad case......

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Work plus commute eh?
    Yes! Definitely does ones head in....full confirmation on the 27cc ... looks like it is out of a 956.... not necessarily a bad thing?

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  17. #42
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    One of the cheap mods in Oz back in the 1970s was to pop the 956 8-port head on the 1108 engines with their 6-port heads. Slight increase in compression and inlet breathing improved I guess but I've never done it and don't know how much difference it makes. They are quite rare heads now I suppose.

    Well worth cleaning up I reckon. I'd have paid that money quite happily too, but that's me.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    Very sad case......

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    One of the cheap mods in Oz back in the 1970s was to pop the 956 8-port head on the 1108 engines with their 6-port heads. Slight increase in compression and inlet breathing improved I guess but I've never done it and don't know how much difference it makes. They are quite rare heads now I suppose.

    Well worth cleaning up I reckon. I'd have paid that money quite happily too, but that's me.

    Cheers
    Well....I'm gonna have it redone and begin piecing together my weber side draught set up.... Roll cage goes in next week! Not a speed machine ...but I definitely don't trust myself.

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  19. #44
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    If you are going to play, the cage makes sense. Doors are NOT burst-proof and the roof structure is, well, light. There's a lot of 1950s in the R8 and it is a cleverly lightweight design from that era.

    Have fun...
    JohnW

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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    If you are going to play, the cage makes sense. Doors are NOT burst-proof and the roof structure is, well, light. There's a lot of 1950s in the R8 and it is a cleverly lightweight design from that era.

    Have fun...
    Yes...the nature of the roof frightens me when hauling a familial co-pilot. 4 pt roll bar and 5 point harness might be overkill...but it gives me more of a piece of mind....!

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  21. #46
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    And there is nothing wrong with not wanting to kill yourself. They say that's a life confirming attribute actually!
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