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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Default Succumbed to Modernisation

    On the way TO the mini 4CV Muster in Bathurst, my speedo stopped working (general callout if anyone has an R8 or R10 std speedo I could cannibalise for parts?); on the way FROM the wipers stopped working too. The trip home in rain all the way wasn't pleasant, although the wipers did start working again of sorts. Enough to risk the odd swipe when truly needed.

    I sat the car back in the Garage for a week or so, then decided it was time to bite the bullet and look into it. I decided my best course of action was to discretely modernise. This car is a former concourse winner and is std in all respects so has the old single speed wiper and switch. There's not much a can do about the speedo and remain standard looking, so I will remove that and either tinker myself or take it to a gauge repairer when the suitable parts are obtained. The wipers are a different story.

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    Through the magic of eBay I have started to collate some parts - universal two speed wiper motor; speed switch integrating washers; a small universal washer motor and a small little hazard warning light switch to add hazard lights - if you're going to break down in this modern era, you may as well do it safely.

    First step when the washer motor arrived yesterday was to imagineer a small bracket to enable it to mount behind the standard washer bottle; then remove the old "pump" switch and tubing and re-use the tubing for the motor. The switch arrived today, so I finished the bracket and lo and behold the switch fits straight in like a bought one. Next step will be the motor, then wire it up and test. The hazard lights look pretty easy too and utilise the flasher can and wiring, but it hasn't arrived yet.

    Updates to follow as it all gets installed and tested.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Succumbed to Modernisation-dscn2868.jpg   Succumbed to Modernisation-dscn2869.jpg   Succumbed to Modernisation-dscn2870.jpg   Succumbed to Modernisation-dscn2871.jpg   Succumbed to Modernisation-dscn2872.jpg  
    KB


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    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Ah all worth while things to do!

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I think if originality was most important you could have used a R12 steering column switch which would have given you the speed variation and the washer functionality.

    Back when I had a R10 and needed to use the wipers and the washer six months a year, I found the reservoir pitifully small. You have some other options there these days, I guess.

    As for the motor, most of the time a comm skim and new brushes will return them to life, but considering modern technology, I would have gone for a modern Toyota small car motor. Those in the Prius swing a huge wiper about with no apparent strain, and the Camry is so powerful it will actually rock the car on high speed. Both look externally exactly like yours (they're actually smaller than the Oz made Bosch unit on my R12) but I guess they have Uranium and Plutonium inside and being made by Denso, I would hazard a guess they would outlive you and I and the rest of the universe.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 5th October 2016 at 08:18 PM.
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    the famous 18E pug206gti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    I sat the car back in the Garage for a week or so, then decided it was time to bite the bullet and look into it. I decided my best course of action was to e modernise. This car is a former concourse winner and is std in all respects.
    Updates to follow as it all gets installed and tested.
    G'day,
    So. if the car is discreetly modernised, [ie, made safer to drive] is it still eligible for awards ? Is there a separate class for 'altered' cars. Bearing in mind that original parts are becoming rather rare. I am thinking of parts like windscreens, windows, and visible parts in the engine bay.
    regards,
    Les W.


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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    I did consider being totally stealth and secreting the washer motor under the car, and the switch behind the dash but the need for ease of use overuled. I'll just have to put up with points deducted and take my chances Les.

    The wiper motor I'm getting is much like an R12 motor (which I have on the R10) but the commentator part swings back towards the RHS and not the left as with the 12. It might help hide and disguise the washer motor and wiring if nothing else.
    KB


  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    KB I have an R8 speedo I won't be using I don't know what it's like but you are welcome to it if it helps, the only problem is I'm going away with work and won't be home to get it out for about a month
    cheers Peter
    LIFES TOO SHORT TO DRIVE BORING CARS!

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    I'm thinking that my '67 round headlight R10 had a little black plunger pump on the dash which you pushed to encourage a little water from the washer bottle all the way up the plastic tubes to the twin washer nozzle. Similarly in the early R16 and R16TS the pump was a rubber balloon under a pedal operated with the left foot (bad luck if you were changing gear) which operated the wipers but when water was required repeated pumps would keep the water and wipers coming. No such thing as electric washers back then. Just sayin'...................
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    My r8 had the same plunger. I'm onto my third one and this one doesn't work.
    Hence the thread title.

    Thanks Peter, maybe message me when you're back and if nothing turns up in the meantime I'll take you up on it.

    Cheers
    KB


  9. #9
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Just make sure Simon isn't around judging then you can get away with any modernising you like

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
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    Hi Kevin,

    I'm bound to have a surplus speedo unit. I'm sure I have your address, but PM it in case and I'll post it within the week. Take Peter's too!!

    Not original but I fitted a black-knobbed Holden switch 25 years ago, a motorised tank on the side of the battery box, and dual squirts in the bonnet grill. Our car is used a lot and the old system, OK in its day, doesn't cut the mustard now. I've never had a problem with the original wipers:

    1. annually pull out the armature and grease the gear on the shaft and sometimes a drop of oil on the plain shaft beyond the gear
    2. intermittently oil the top of the wiper shafts with them pulled out so the oil goes underneath the wide washers that lift up when you pull the arms out from the body.

    Ours once ran for 12 hours continuously driving home to Adelaide from Bright with Victoria flooding behind us, much like yesterday/today it seems.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    My r8 had the same plunger. I'm onto my third one and this one doesn't work.
    Hence the thread title.

    Thanks Peter, maybe message me when you're back and if nothing turns up in the meantime I'll take you up on it.

    Cheers
    Maybe you can use the old plunger to operate a microswitch?
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Maybe you can use the old plunger to operate a microswitch?
    I did think of that, but I've bought two switches now and still would need a switch for the two speed wipers anyhow - I've bought two of everything so I'll have one for the green car, and one for the red car.
    KB


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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Personally I'm not a snob for originality as long as things look in period (ish). Doing the sort of upgrades you are proposing are no different to doing a brake upgrade or fitting seat belts in not originally done so.

    By the by, my ancient (R10 powered) Fregate wipers got a fair work out on the Bathurst trip and never missed a beat, the wiper blades stayed put on the windscreen too and I put a Rainex type product on the glass to help dispel the droplets to good effect. I also have an electric washer set up using the original glass bottle and the pump secreted under the air cleaner, even Simon wouldn't spot that one.

    Go forth and upgrade with sympathy.

  14. #14
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Probably this is what I fitted into the grill: PEUGEOT 207 306 307 MIST WASHER JETS SPRAY FRONT WINDSCREEN NOZZLES WATER JET - from ebay.

    I wedged them in, held down in place with the water tubing from beneath and with a cut wedge of plastic to tip them up and get the angle right.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
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    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
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  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Here's me thinkin' you were going for the full auto wiper set-up! Two speeds automatically adjusted, with auto dwell and operated by the wet stuff automatically.........
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Just make sure Simon isn't around judging then you can get away with any modernising you like
    Period Accessory, look in any old Practical Motorist magazine. That covers most accessories outside of a CD/MP3 player in a 1960's car. If the modifications make the car get used more, that can only be good. :-)
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    I second Simon's thoughts. Do whatever makes it capable of being used to the extent you wish. If that is trailering it from its garage to various concours events & back again, then keep it totally original (& dysfunctional in various ways). If, on the other hand, you are interested in driving it, do whatever you like that meets your goals. If that sacrifices originality, so be it.

    cheers! Peter

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    So this is progressing reasonably well. The wiper motor arrived from the states and is mounted in the car. I needed to make a plate and drill three holes similar to when mounting an R12 conversion into an R8. The motor has been dry run and works ok - I also needed to identify which wire was which speed as the eBay seller claimed not to have a wiring diagram. I'm in the process of making a new plate and pin to connect from the motor shaft to the levers and arms so the magic works. The shaft is thicker so the original couldn't be used as you can't get in to tighten the nut.

    The speedo was dropped off to a local gauge repairer yesterday and the speedo cable this morning after spending part of last night under the car. Those who have done it will know! He rang this morning to say he thinks the cable unwound itself due to resistance in the mechanism so he is going to try to rebuild my existing speedo and make a new inner cable. Expensive, but better in the long run.

    The wiper washers have been tested and work (using the original spray nozzles). I'm in the process of installing the headlight alert off the door switch - tonights' mission is to feed the wires back down the A pillar and out the little hole where the door switch goes. I had a couple of attempts last night, but gave up.

    I've mounted the hazard switch but still trying to digest the wiring diagram as to how I'm going to get it to work.
    I might have to post some details on that and let some of you smart gentleman (and ladies) assist perhaps.

    KB
    KB


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    Fellow Frogger! Paul T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pug206gti View Post
    G'day,
    So. if the car is discreetly modernised, [ie, made safer to drive] is it still eligible for awards ? Is there a separate class for 'altered' cars. Bearing in mind that original parts are becoming rather rare. I am thinking of parts like windscreens, windows, and visible parts in the engine bay.
    Hi Les,
    In the real world of Concours there are 2 classes. Firstly is the Concours d'Elegance which not only takes cleanliness into consideration but originality as well. Some people go to great lengths to ensure their vehicle (restored or not) is exactly as it left the factory with no dealer options or stickers. I competed against a fellow who had a full set of Dunlop Aqua Jets on original rims that he changed onto the car once arriving on the ground.
    Secondly is the Concours d'Etat (pronounced "day tar") which only judges cleanliness. So if your car is different to how it left the factory the d'Etat is the right class to enter.

    Paul Tomlinson
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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    That might be Jag, Ford and others Paul, but have you been to an All French Car day lately?

    Concours d'Etat reminds me of Coup d'etat which is French for Coup d'ťtat!
    JohnW likes this.
    KB


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    Fellow Frogger! Paul T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    That might be Jag, Ford and others Paul, but have you been to an All French Car day lately?

    Concours d'Etat reminds me of Coup d'etat which is French for Coup d'ťtat!
    Yes I have. I was just explaining concours the way it is meant to be??!!? Personally I prefer the more friendly layed back style at the AFCD. The concours' I have been involved in is like playing for sheep stations where competitors would take the car off the road 4 weeks prior for cleaning (if it ever saw a road!). Some even have their cars trucked in covered transports to the ground before being driven into place for final cleaning and judging. Takes all the fun out of it! I did it for a few years and received some nice trophies but in the end I prefer my cars to be driven not hidden.
    Last edited by Paul T; 18th October 2016 at 05:31 PM.
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    Paul Tomlinson
    R1135 Gordini 1968.
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    Alpine GTA 1988
    Jaguar X Type 2002.

  22. #22
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    I've just had the 4CV on "the freeway" (it is Perth after all, so "the...") on a steady 4,000 rpm, 90 kph indicated. Many looks and a lovely little test drive. Concors? No, but quite charming and it does look lovely. Spider wheel Dauphine rear brakes coming up soon - far better brakes and no change in appearance.

    Kevin, that sounds like mega-modernising, entirely sensible and barely visible to inspection - safety is good! If you want to see how NOT to do it, look at the English Ford displays, if Perth's Classic Car Day is anything to go by. What to look for? The hint is "silly wheels". Sadly the VW Combi fraternity includes many on the same track with buttons for wheels.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
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    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  23. #23
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    You gould ,just leave the speedo as is and fit one of those that works by gps projects onto the wind screen ,plugs into cig lighter ,just unplug and stow in glove box at club day ,nobody will know ,pugs

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Not a bad Idea pug wash, but I've already given the repairer the go ahead so I'm committed now - or should that be I should be committed. Also I think no working odometer is a pink slip failure in NSW, so not sure if they have inbuilt odometers?

    I managed to get the door wire fed through on the 2nd or third attempt - not bad I thought.
    Here's the almost finished wiper motor install.

    Now to the hazards wiring - the switch has three wires. The instructions say to attach the middle black wire to the "L" terminal on a relay and the other two to the positive side of each indicator. Of course mine has the original flasher can which has a grey wire marked +ve (which I believe comes from a buzzbar on the back of the speedo); and a grey wire which disappears off Presumably to the indicator switch perhaps? then a black wire which goes to the lamp on the back of the speedo which flashes when the indicators are on (one shared globe between the two indicators). Any ideas on that fellas?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Succumbed to Modernisation-dscn2877.jpg   Succumbed to Modernisation-dscn2878.jpg   Succumbed to Modernisation-dscn2880.jpg   Succumbed to Modernisation-dscn2879.jpg   Succumbed to Modernisation-dscn2881.jpg  
    KB


  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post

    ...

    Now to the hazards wiring - the switch has three wires. The instructions say to attach the middle black wire to the "L" terminal on a relay and the other two to the positive side of each indicator. Of course mine has the original flasher can which has a grey wire marked +ve (which I believe comes from a buzzbar on the back of the speedo); and a grey wire which disappears off Presumably to the indicator switch perhaps? then a black wire which goes to the lamp on the back of the speedo which flashes when the indicators are on (one shared globe between the two indicators). Any ideas on that fellas?
    Upgrade the flasher can and indicator wiring first?

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