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    Fellow Frogger! CXVingtCinq's Avatar
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    Default R16TS Head Gasket

    So, how difficult is it to replace a head gasket on a late model 16TS.?

    I had one back in early 80s but never had the need to do any major work on it. I loved it but remember thinking at the time that the motor is way back in the engine bay and might cause some issues for something like a head gasket.

    I am going over to look at the avocado 16TS in Inverell on Saturday and it looks like it needs a new head gasket at least.

    Expensive.? Time consuming.? Does the block and gearbox have to come out as well to do it effectively.? Any special tools needed.? I remember having a special long plug spanner back in the day. So will need to look for one of those at least I guess. Where should I source the actual head gasket and any other bits needed.?

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    Any thoughts / suggestions welcomed and much appreciated.
    Cheers, Peter J
    Current - 1974 D Special
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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post
    So, how difficult is it to replace a head gasket on a late model 16TS.?
    ------------------ Where should I source the actual head gasket and any other bits needed.?

    Any thoughts / suggestions welcomed and much appreciated.
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    Fellow Frogger! Sarosa's Avatar
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    I've got a few spare Gasket sets I'd be happy to sell. The job can be done in-situ, no need to remove the block/gearbox. Yes special long spanner tool needed (I can loan via registered couriers and healthy deposit!). Hardest bit is getting the exhaust off, including dislocating the down pipe. Pretty tight for space getting the head back on in one nice clean drop, but do-able.
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    Fellow Frogger! CXVingtCinq's Avatar
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    Thanks Jaahn.

    This is one of those "D'oh" moments when I should have known to look right under my nose.
    Cheers, Peter J
    Current - 1974 D Special
    : 1976 16TS
    Previous - 1984 CX 25 IE : 1976 16TS : 1979 12 Virage

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    Fellow Frogger! CXVingtCinq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarosa View Post
    I've got a few spare Gasket sets I'd be happy to sell. The job can be done in-situ, no need to remove the block/gearbox. Yes special long spanner tool needed (I can loan via registered couriers and healthy deposit!). Hardest bit is getting the exhaust off, including dislocating the down pipe. Pretty tight for space getting the head back on in one nice clean drop, but do-able.
    Thanks Sarosa. I'll see what it is like and get back to you if needed. I'm happy to buy tools if I will use them again, but just as happy to borrow/rent if available for more one off tools. Getting the head back on sounds like a two man job. If it has a blown head gasket would there be any other internal head damage to look out for or suggested to replace while doing the gasket.?
    Cheers, Peter J
    Current - 1974 D Special
    : 1976 16TS
    Previous - 1984 CX 25 IE : 1976 16TS : 1979 12 Virage

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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post
    If it has a blown head gasket would there be any other internal head damage to look out for or suggested to replace while doing the gasket.?
    Hard to say at this stage. The ad says the engine sounds fine so I'm not sure why he thinks the head gasket is possibly gone. If it was me, the first thing I'd do is bleed the cooling system to make sure there is no air in the system.

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    Fellow Frogger! CXVingtCinq's Avatar
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    That is what I was thinking. But he says there is air bubbling up in the radiator and water is pushing out onto the ground. So he thinks it is head gasket. A head gasket shouldn't blow just because it is sitting in the shed for 10 years would it.? Anyway, time will tell. How hard is it to bleed the cooling system.? Need to have the heater open/on don't you.?
    Cheers, Peter J
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    : 1976 16TS
    Previous - 1984 CX 25 IE : 1976 16TS : 1979 12 Virage

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    There are few special tools required to align the head gasket and head when re-assembling, but these can easily be made up and will make the job far easier to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post
    That is what I was thinking. But he says there is air bubbling up in the radiator and water is pushing out onto the ground. So he thinks it is head gasket. A head gasket shouldn't blow just because it is sitting in the shed for 10 years would it.? Anyway, time will tell. How hard is it to bleed the cooling system.? Need to have the heater open/on don't you.?
    The 16 has a closed cooling system so if you open the radiator cap while the engine is turning over YES water will bubble and gush out. It's not hard to bleed the system after you know how - just follow one of the manuals. You'll need to clamp off the heater hoses at the water pump and open up the bleed screws near the back of the air filter casing and on the carbie if it has an auto choke. Heater fully open. You keep filling the radiator till all the air is out, then quickly cap it, close the screws and release the clamps. If the engine has sat for 10 years one thing to look for will be a leaky water-pump. Check it hasn't rusted through at the back.
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    Mate, that gasket is nothing compared to the suspension
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melc View Post
    Mate, that gasket is nothing compared to the suspension
    Melc, as chief ambassador for R16's you are supposed to be encouraging !! :-)
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    I'd add to be super careful in both removing the head and while it is off to avoid disturbing the sleeves. I have this vague memory of cracking it sideways first not upwards, but it's been a long time. Someone will know more!

    Re Mel's comment:
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I'd add to be super careful in both removing the head and while it is off to avoid disturbing the sleeves. I have this vague memory of cracking it sideways first not upwards, but it's been a long time. Someone will know more!

    Re Mel's comment:
    Yes that's true, take the head off by cracking it sideways with one middle head bolt still in. Clamp them down (the liners) if your leaving the head off for a while...........though I'll be dammed if I can even get those liners out with the block upside down and giving them a mighty good beating with a hammer and dowel most of the time :-).
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    I'd say if the paint is decent, and the body is not rusty (the last of the 16s appear hit or miss) you are half way there. Whilst suspension bushes are a challenge to replace, they do seem available from OS. Also with the motor check for corroded welsh plugs, especially if the motor has not seen a good quality coolant in a long time. Again, lots of little challenges, but nothing impossible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post

    Any special tools needed.? I remember having a special long plug spanner back in the day. So will need to look for one of those at least I guess. Where should I source the actual head gasket and any other bits needed.?

    Any thoughts / suggestions welcomed and much appreciated.

    There is a special tappet adjustment tool , I have one that I would loan or sell if needed.
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    I only want a punter to go in with eyes open. We don't need anyone hating the mighty 16
    4's 16's and Caravelle

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    Thanks all for the comments and info. Much appreciated.

    I do indeed need to go into this with my eyes wide open. I did really love the 16 I had way back when but don't have a lot of funds to throw at this so I'm hoping this one is in reasonable shape still. Supposed to have no rust (don't they all) so as Simon says, if the rest is reasonable it could be worth my while. I have to call him again later today expect to organise a trip over to Inverell on Saturday. Will let you know how I go.
    Cheers, Peter J
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    The car won't blow the head gasket sitting. I would suspect head or block or both corrosion is the worst you could find. I found these blocks can be very corrosion prone and the heads are not beyond suspicion either. A pain in the dorongo. Then again, some of the worst looking cars might have a perfectly intact block. I agree, sometimes the liners don't want to come out the easy way but in my experience this is rare.

    There are long reach plug sockets these days, almost in any length you want. Failing that, you can try to locate a BMW 2002 OEM plug tube spanner (it was in the car's tool set) which is the right length for the 807 engine and it can squeeze under the scuttle if the R16 needs that (my experience comes from R17 where you don't have this problem). This is good of course for "normal" plugs not those with undersize hex.
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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Would the reason it was "put away" in the shed be because of a blown head gasket? Not that these heads had huge problems with head corrosion, but if run on water for long enough this could also be a cause. The engines and gearboxes are actually quite tough, but as Melc says suspension rebuilding is likely to create more headaches. After sitting so long brakes will normally have to be gone right through. I too like 16s, and if I didn't already have 6 cars and 9 motorbikes, I would chase down the best one I could find.
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    I was going to mention brakes but didn't want to seem like a kiljoy. Check the rad hoses and heater tap, they can be a real pain in the "durongo???" (I like it) also. I recently checked a similar specimen for a colleague, said to be a runner, nothing could be further from the truth. It looked about 7/10 but really was a money pit
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    but really was a money pit
    Which is the same story with most other "original condition" 40 year+ old cars.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melc View Post
    I was going to mention brakes but didn't want to seem like a kiljoy. Check the rad hoses and heater tap, they can be a real pain in the "durongo???" (I like it) also. I recently checked a similar specimen for a colleague, said to be a runner, nothing could be further from the truth. It looked about 7/10 but really was a money pit
    Talking of heater taps on a 16, I spent weeks trying to free mine up. My rather agricultural solution was a stanley knife and a Gardenia hose tap from Bunnings. It lives on the engine side of the firewall and works perfectly....... if I stop , raise the bonnet and open or close it a little or a lot.
    Here in Melbourne it is on for about 4 months of the year!!!!

    As for the cooling problem, chief suspect should be the expansion bottle not sealing. they fill up at the expense of the engine, which then overheats. My 16TS had sat for 25 yrs and the rubber suction hose had softened and fallen off. A new 20cm pice of hose , new radiator cap and all was well. Water pump dripped for a few weeks, but that was 15000 miles ago.

    Great car... heading off on a coastal trip to Goolwa, SA, on 5/9 and back via the Murray Valley, Echuca and home over 2 weeks. Happy me!!

    Cheers
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    Der FRanzose have the long plug spanners for 404,504 etc

    Suspect that R16 one is the same, but am open to correction

    Andrew

    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    The car won't blow the head gasket sitting. I would suspect head or block or both corrosion is the worst you could find. I found these blocks can be very corrosion prone and the heads are not beyond suspicion either. A pain in the dorongo. Then again, some of the worst looking cars might have a perfectly intact block. I agree, sometimes the liners don't want to come out the easy way but in my experience this is rare.

    There are long reach plug sockets these days, almost in any length you want. Failing that, you can try to locate a BMW 2002 OEM plug tube spanner (it was in the car's tool set) which is the right length for the 807 engine and it can squeeze under the scuttle if the R16 needs that (my experience comes from R17 where you don't have this problem). This is good of course for "normal" plugs not those with undersize hex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I agree, sometimes the liners don't want to come out the easy way but in my experience this is rare.
    I've mostly found the liners tended to rust a bit on the outside and effectively "fuse" with each other where they sit against each other. But I guess I only have had to pull down really, really old motors that have sat 20+ years unused. I've had a few blocks with corrosion at the liner base, but nothing write-off yet and that included a motor that was sitting 30+ years near the coast.

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    Fellow Frogger! Sarosa's Avatar
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    Backing up John Masefield's post, we also pulled a 16 motor out of a TL that was sitting on a front lawn for goodness knows how long. Long enough I guess for the car to be almost disintegrated around it. With some cleaning and fluids the motor has started and idles like new. They seem to be pretty hardy things.
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