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  1. #51
    Fellow Frogger! CXVingtCinq's Avatar
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    Apologies for the lack of responses guys. I have been laid up with a slight back injury and seeing a physio and doing exercises to enable normal movement again. Hope to get at it again this weekend as working for a living means it is not always possible to get onto this in the evenings.


    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMasefield View Post
    You said that you could not open the heater tap, so you would not get any coolant from that bleeder point. Is yours a glass jar expansion bottle, and if so is the suction hose attached to the screw lid, and is the rubber washer both OK and correctly located between the cap and bottle as per the book. Also is the hose connecting the radiator to the bottle in good nick and sealed at the joints.

    I would not be panicking yet re head gasket.Check these items and try again, and again,much easier than " off with its head"!!
    See above for my solution to a stuck heater tap..... if it is stuck open, which yours apparently is not. Good luck

    John
    The expansion bottle is hard plastic John not glass and these later models have the hose from the radiator going into the bottom of the bottle. The hose seems fine and not leaking anywhere in this area. The cap on the expansion bottle has a valve and it appears OK also.

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    I'm hoping / expecting there is a leak somewhere and this explains the large volume of coolant backing up into the expansion bottle as it would need to be replaced in the system by air or another liquid as it moves out of the head/block/radiator into the bottle and this means a leak or opening for the air to enter surely.

    A tip / encouragement from Mike Newton in Brisbane who has a fine looking 16TS will see me pull down the heater tap setup from the firewall and under the dash to refurbish also. But getting the motor running and clarifying the head gasket situation is first priority.
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    Cheers, Peter J
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    : 1976 16TS
    Previous - 1984 CX 25 IE : 1976 16TS : 1979 12 Virage

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post
    Apologies for the lack of responses guys. I have been laid up with a slight back injury and seeing a physio and doing exercises to enable normal movement again. Hope to get at it again this weekend as working for a living means it is not always possible to get onto this in the evenings.
    -----------------------
    Hi CXVingtCing,
    Listen, do not use four letter words like; "WORK", on this forum.
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  3. #53
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    Ouch. Don't rush the back - especially when you think how far you have to lean in to reach the 16 head! Sounds like the accompanying things are coming together. Those plastic bottles are much better, except it is hard to see small bubbles.

    Take it easy.
    JohnW

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  4. #54
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    Embrace the mighty plastic bottle. All you have to do to bleed the system is dismount it and hold it up high, open the heater tap and bleed screws and voile'! One bled system, no thermo operation necessary!

    No need to thank me
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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post
    A tip / encouragement from Mike Newton in Brisbane who has a fine looking 16TS will see me pull down the heater tap setup from the firewall and under the dash to refurbish also. But getting the motor running and clarifying the head gasket situation is first priority.
    Pull the heater matrix at the same time, a bit more work. But if the tap is seized up, the matrix is potentially at least partially blocked with dried sediment that will make bleeding the system quite difficult.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melc View Post
    Embrace the mighty plastic bottle. All you have to do to bleed the system is dismount it and hold it up high, open the heater tap and bleed screws and voile'! One bled system, no thermo operation necessary!

    No need to thank me
    Yes, I must agree with Melc.

    With my various Renaults over the years, I found using the plastic bottle in the aforesaid manner, made bleeding easier.

    As Simon suggests, a good flush of all hoses and pipe work is essential. You will probably also finds that the coolant flow through the little tube to keep the carby warm is also blocked.

    Trust the back resolves quickly.

  7. #57
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    Well, The back is almost good again (thanks for all the concern) and I have made some more progress on the 16. After many attempts to bleed the cooling system as suggested by several here I think I have had a win. A clear tube attached to the bleed screw on the front of the head running down to a bucket and securing the expansion bottle up hanging from the bonnet (see attached) and running the motor and leaving it overnight a couple of times the air finally / slowly bubbled out and despite the heater hose tap being only half or two thirds open the coolant flowed down from the bottle into the system.

    R16TS Head Gasket-coolant-bleed.jpg

    With the cooling system sealed up again it all looks good I hope. I have also spent some time on the air cleaner & the carby and got the motor running a bit better. The cooling fan seems to cut in OK and works fine, so hopefully the cooling system at least is now operational / fixed. Next onto the brakes. It will be a week or so unfortunately before I can get back to it as I have to head off for a few days with work.
    Cheers, Peter J
    Current - 1974 D Special
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    Sounds good. I'm hoping that you mean, implicitly, that the motor runs without huge amounts of air coming out of the cooling system, i.e. that the problem was engine heat that was expanding air not bled out, rather than leakingfrom a combustion chamber. Can you run it for quite a while and just have it heat up normally and the fan come on without any problems? Hope so.

    Cheers

    John
    JohnW

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    They really are real [email protected]#$%^ to bleed some times and particularly if there is air in the heater system. Hope you have solved the problem.

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    Just wondering if you have looked under vehicle at front lower control arm mounting areas of chassis,as my last 16ts rusted there and I ended up scrapping it which I now regret as it was an r1154 special tinted windows sunroof elec front windows.As mine had sat for five years I think the sunroof had weeped water in and found its way into chassis rail l/hand side,nothing that I now know I couldn,t have fixed. jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by dacia4x4 View Post
    Just wondering if you have looked under vehicle at front lower control arm mounting areas of chassis,as my last 16ts rusted there and I ended up scrapping it which I now regret as it was an r1154 special tinted windows sunroof elec front windows.As mine had sat for five years I think the sunroof had weeped water in and found its way into chassis rail l/hand side,nothing that I now know I couldn,t have fixed. jim
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    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by dacia4x4 View Post
    Just wondering if you have looked under vehicle at front lower control arm mounting areas of chassis,as my last 16ts rusted there and I ended up scrapping it which I now regret as it was an r1154 special tinted windows sunroof elec front windows.As mine had sat for five years I think the sunroof had weeped water in and found its way into chassis rail l/hand side,nothing that I now know I couldn,t have fixed. jim
    That is a reasonably common rot spot, the base of the chassis rail rusts through from the inside out.
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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by dacia4x4 View Post
    Just wondering if you have looked under vehicle at front lower control arm mounting areas of chassis,as my last 16ts rusted there and I ended up scrapping it which I now regret as it was an r1154 special tinted windows sunroof elec front windows.As mine had sat for five years I think the sunroof had weeped water in and found its way into chassis rail l/hand side,nothing that I now know I couldn,t have fixed. jim
    I haven't had it up on a hoist yet but have crawled under it and up on a jack / stands. No rust anywhere that I can see underneath. The only spot is as per previous photo of leading edge of front drivers side guard.

    Trying to tidy up a few things with light work before tackling the brakes when my back recovers and found this wire hanging loose at the back of the alternator. Where should that go.?
    R16TS Head Gasket-img_1235.jpg
    It leads back to the relay area at the front passengers guard but I can't follow/find it there. The wiring diagram in the Haynes does not make sense to me. The wire going into the plug at the top of the alternator is a bit frayed and needs some insulation tape at least so another job for today. The Tacho does not work also so I need to trace the wiring for that which is shown on the wiring diagram going to the coil but it looks like it is OK.
    Cheers, Peter J
    Current - 1974 D Special
    : 1976 16TS
    Previous - 1984 CX 25 IE : 1976 16TS : 1979 12 Virage

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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post
    I haven't had it up on a hoist yet but have crawled under it and up on a jack / stands. No rust anywhere that I can see underneath. The only spot is as per previous photo of leading edge of front drivers side guard.

    Trying to tidy up a few things with light work before tackling the brakes when my back recovers and found this wire hanging loose at the back of the alternator. Where should that go.?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    It leads back to the relay area at the front passengers guard but I can't follow/find it there. The wiring diagram in the Haynes does not make sense to me. The wire going into the plug at the top of the alternator is a bit frayed and needs some insulation tape at least so another job for today. The Tacho does not work also so I need to trace the wiring for that which is shown on the wiring diagram going to the coil but it looks like it is OK.
    Having just looked in my Haynes R16 manual I would say it goes to the + terminal of the Alternator. There should be another wire that goes to the + terminal also, it will also be a yellow wire or a white wire.

    The other end of these wires are at the starter motor (where the big battery wire hooks onto the solenoid for the starter motor) and at the light switch (from memory there is stud on the head light switch with several wires attached).

    Hope this helps
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    Regards Col

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    Thanks Col. I have actually since found a thread hole on the motor side of the back of the alternator where this obviously should screw on. Looks like it is the earth for the alternator. The positive terminal has the 2 wires on it OK as you say, but the thread hole is "sans bolt". A 3/16 bolt I had laying around goes very close so it must be 5mm I guess. Off to the hardware now to see if I can get hold of a short 5mm bolt to fix.
    Cheers, Peter J
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  16. #66
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    If it is the same as R15/17's then the earth for all other electrical stuff (eg lights) comes from the earth attached to the alternator. The negative terminal of the battery goes to the engine. The earth from the alternator usually attaches to the coil bracket or the regulator base. The earth on them looks like the one in your photo. R16's might be different of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post
    Thanks Col. I have actually since found a thread hole on the motor side of the back of the alternator where this obviously should screw on. Looks like it is the earth for the alternator. The positive terminal has the 2 wires on it OK as you say, but the thread hole is "sans bolt". A 3/16 bolt I had laying around goes very close so it must be 5mm I guess. Off to the hardware now to see if I can get hold of a short 5mm bolt to fix.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    If it is the same as R15/17's then the earth for all other electrical stuff (eg lights) comes from the earth attached to the alternator. The negative terminal of the battery goes to the engine. The earth from the alternator usually attaches to the coil bracket or the regulator base. The earth on them looks like the one in your photo. R16's might be different of course.
    I was thinking an earth wire originally, in the drawings I think they were beige in colour. I seen it was yellow that is why I thought it was the + terminal wire.

    Doesn't matter now cause you have found where it goes.
    Regards Col

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    Quote Originally Posted by CXVingtCinq View Post
    Thanks Col. I have actually since found a thread hole on the motor side of the back of the alternator where this obviously should screw on. Looks like it is the earth for the alternator. The positive terminal has the 2 wires on it OK as you say, but the thread hole is "sans bolt". A 3/16 bolt I had laying around goes very close so it must be 5mm I guess. Off to the hardware now to see if I can get hold of a short 5mm bolt to fix.
    You need a parts car. I've never been to the hardware store for a small bolt. Good you've found where it sits.

    Minor pedantry though - hard to imagine the alternator casing needing an earth, presuming that wee bolt goes into the usual threaded hole on those Bosch alternators.

    Hope the back is improving.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    No John the alternator does need the earth but the rest of the car does. Unlike a Daup,8,10 etc which has an earth strap to the chassis these other cars don't, the earth comes from the alternator to the body. Yep just that small wire. But it works.

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    I never needed even to look at the electricals on our 16TSs!

    Thanks for that.
    JohnW

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    For what it's worth, my 504 had a small wire from the alternator to the body, 3 x electric fuel pumps later I installed a proper earth strap.
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