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  1. #1
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    Default conti tyre expansion

    I have long bemoaned the increasing paucity of decent tyres in sizes of interest to owners of old beasties. Continental have just carried out a massive expansion of size availability & now carry a host of relevant sizes in very good tyre types. Have a browse through the EcoContact 3 & 5 & PremiumContact 2 & 5 listings.

    http://www.continental-tyres.com.au/car/tyres/car

    Some samples:

    175/70-13 (& 155/80 if you insist) in EC3 (R12, R17)
    175/65-13 in EC3 (R12 & R17 with 5" + rims)
    175/80-14 in EC3 (R20)
    175/70-14 in PC2 & EC5 (R16)
    165/65-15 in EC3 (4.5" rim R10S & R8G & Citroen GS)

    Oh & and for anyone with a new critter using 19"+ wheels, the class-leading Conti SportContact6 (replacing the SportContact5P) is now (& very swiftly) released in Oz.

    &, to my personal joy & delight, given my enthusiasm for 14" wheels on rear-engined Renaults and my dismay concerning the dubious merits of the denizens of the small pool of Oz-available 185/60-14 tyres (Bridgestone's T001 & Pirelli's P1 are the none too satisfactory best of a bad bunch), the splendid PC5 is now finally released here in that size. Even better is that it's also available in my front tyre size of 165/70-14, so I can be sure of structural match for front/rear balance (which has been an issue with existing PC2 fronts & structurally sloppier & more tread unstable T001 or P1).

    Have a browse in your tyre size as there is also a "4 for the price of 3" deal going until the end of June. (I have availed myself of it for 4 PC5 tyres for a daughter's Corolla - replacing the near-new "Pace" brand rubbish which was gripless in the wet.)

    These will all be tubeless but, as I have written about before, can be fitted without technical objection to our "tube-type" rims without concern. (Do maintain pressures above 15 psi though.) Don't be tempted to put in tubes. Nothing will be gained & you'll risk tube failure. I will reproduce my past discussion of this issue upon request.

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    Sometimes the Gods smile anew on owners of old Frog stuff.

    cheers! Peter
    Last edited by 4cvg; 25th May 2016 at 09:19 PM.
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    I'm keen to try out a set of Continental CONTIECOCONTACT EP 145/65R15 tyres on my GS. Made in France. These were also the buy 4 get one free offer you mention, but through Tyresales.com.au

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    I was so hopeful! Still no Sport Contact 5's here in 94V 15" sizes though.

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    Thanks Peter - I can now get V-rated PC5s for all my cars with 15" wheels!

    Cheers

    Alec

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    Quote Originally Posted by graham66 View Post
    I'm keen to try out a set of Continental CONTIECOCONTACT EP 145/65R15 tyres on my GS. Made in France. These were also the buy 4 get one free offer you mention, but through Tyresales.com.au
    I think that this is an excellent idea. In OE 145/80, Michelin XZX are, um, not very good & cost lots; Nankang do a 145/80 more cheaply but are also, um, not very good. I use 145/65-15 on standard 4" R10 rims as spares on my 4CVG, R8 & Djet (almost same circumference as my 14" tyre fitments on them). At one point, I had an R8 rear 14" wheel being repaired & put the 165/65 normal fronts on the rear & two 145/65-15 Conti EcoContact EP spares on the front. Predictably I went & had an experimental play at the limit under both braking & cornering, especially in the wet. Predictably also, limits were lower than my normal setup but balance was good & behaviour around the limit was benign. I'd fit them with confidence.

    Compared to 145/80, 145/65 will be undergeared by 7%. As you have 4.5" rims, you might wish to consider the (superior) replacement for the EP, the EC3, in 165/65. This would only involve undergearing of 3% &, for reasons to do with contact patch shape, would not, I predict, increase steering weight at low speeds (or high, for that matter).

    I note that the new Conti page does not list the EP & it might be that it's a matter of getting in quick while remaining stocks last - if that's the option you end up choosing.

    Enjoy, Peter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    I was so hopeful! Still no Sport Contact 5's here in 94V 15" sizes though.
    what's the size addo?

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    205/65/15 and 94V

    Although it now looks like I can get the PC5 in that size and spec, probably around $150-160/corner - previously not available in Oz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    I note that the new Conti page does not list the EP & it might be that it's a matter of getting in quick while remaining stocks last - if that's the option you end up choosing.

    Enjoy, Peter.
    They're still available on tyresales.com.au but only 7 pcs left in stock. The price has gone up too since I got mine a few months back.

    Interesting to see how they go. 7% under-gearing will give me quicker response off the mark, right? Being a 1015 it needs that. On the highway it will be quite noticeable I'm guessing. I had thought about the 165/65 but on a GS they need to be as skinny as the originals so as not to foul on the rear sideskirts. Skinnier tyres gives me better economy too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    205/65/15 and 94V

    Although it now looks like I can get the PC5 in that size and spec, probably around $150-160/corner - previously not available in Oz.
    hmm! I had a little browse in your size.

    Basically the PC5 looks like one of a short-list of two - both excellent on most criteria of appraisal. The other one is Dunlop's BluResponse - same class of tyre & swaps places with the PC5 at the front of tests (along with a couple of other tyres not in your size). I'd say from test comments that the BluResponse would be crisper in response but there's not much in it; certainly not enough to outweigh the merits of the current deal.

    I just had PC5s fitted (195/65-15) to a daughter's Corolla. When examining the unmounted tyres, I was a bit dismayed by the flexibility of the sidewalls. It's a semi low rolling resistance tyre & there are two routes to achieving LRR. One is by using a lightweight structure that minimises friction losses & the other is by use of a compound that minimises energy losses in the distortion-recovery cycle. The former lessens crispness of force transmission via the sidewall from bead to contact patch & the latter lessens wet grip.

    The PC5 has the lightweight structure only (the EC5 has basically the same structure but a tread compound biased more away from wet grip & towards LRR). The SC5 is crisper in structure than the PC5 (as you would expect). However the PC5 draws from the SC5 design in having a stable tread structure (also important for crisp response; my T001 Bridgestones improved markedly at half of new tread depth, so much of their problem was unstable tread elements). Unlike my experience with the T001 & P1, my past experience with Conti EP, EC3 & PC2 has been that despite structures that are less crisp than some market rivals, they can be sharpened up very nicely indeed by increasing pressures (& each has a stable tread structure). Nor have I found that increase to lead to a rock hard ride. Mind you, the PC5 side wall is more flexible than any of those three. So, I was unsure about them despite testers' lack of expressed concerns & my past Conti experiences.

    Anyway, I upped the pressures mildly to 34 psi all round. I have had just one drive - home from Bob Jane's. So, structure not settled, mould-release compound not yet scubbed off & a road slightly wet in places. Mind you, that road is the one I am most familiar with of all roads & is Targa Tasmania's first special stage. In short, despite the tyres' "rawness" & despite it being a Corolla, I had a bit of a go.

    Result? I couldn't quite see why but the irritating stability control went bananas (one wonders how it would like the Djet's yaw angles). Anyway all seemed good to me. Yes it understeered a bit &, were it to be my car, I'd up the relative pressure of the fronts & absolute pressures all round but it wasn't off-puttingly soggy in the tyre part of the response, could be jinked about & was responsive to line tightening lift-off without untidy sloppy-tyre lurch.

    Of course things would have been a better test with less raw tyres on a familiar toy (best test would be the 4CVG which likes rear tyres that function at low slip angles) & with the only form of stability control being organic. But, as far as it went, I was reassured that the sidewalls were not Michelin X style disastrous. Reassured enough to plan a set at the end of the year to replace the 4CVG's PC2/T001 mix.

    If you can get 4 for the price of 3 at some point (I vaguely recall Dunlop doing this on occasion), then I think I'd get the BluResponse but you should be able to pressure tune the PC5 to a satisfactory state.

    cheers! Peter

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    OK - that's the 605s & XMs sorted - presume the same comments apply to 205x60R15 91V (for Xantias & 406s)? I have absorbed enough from these discussions to know that conclusions drawn from one size in a range don't necessarily apply to all sizes in that range...

    Interesting to see you recommending Dunlops - I have pretty much written Dunlop off since getting a bad set of Dunlop cross-plies in the 70s .

    Cheers

    Alec

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    I have to presume the affection for Bluresponse comes as result of something like sidewall stiffness; overseas reviews put them below the PC5 as do the EU gradings of tyre qualities and also price point.

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    Hi Peter!

    Is the PC5 in the same class as the PS3 or the RE003? I have a BX that is due for new tyres soon, and I have two main options:

    -I can go through the process of getting 15 inch rims under my rear spats with 195/55R15 PS3 or RE003 rubber
    -I can keep the 14 inch rims, and get 185/65R14 in the PC5.

    I have similar options on my 504, the family's 406, and a friend's C5.

    Cheers,
    Fed

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    No; both PS3 & RE003 (especially the latter) would be crisper although in the same broad band on wet grip. Bridgestone's T001 & Michelin's Primacy 3 are Conti PC5 class.

    I can't imagine you being anything but happy with the PC5 but, if going for 195/55-15, I'd choose the RE003 (crisper in response than PS3s).

    The joy is that all of the options are good now whereas very recently it was a rather dire situation in OE sizes.

    cheers! Peter
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    I have to presume the affection for Bluresponse comes as result of something like sidewall stiffness; overseas reviews put them below the PC5 as do the EU gradings of tyre qualities and also price point.
    yes; they struck me as likely to be further along the spectrum towards sc5 sidewalls than the pc5 would be.

    cheers! peter

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    I have a Series II Megane 07 diesel and had to replace my Pilot Sports Michelins earlier in the year though couldn't afford like for like with an impending wedding. I put the RE003s on per recommendation of Jax Tyres and love them. They're as good as the PS tyres I'd had for 40K of hard driving, love them and would out more in again. Looking to upgrade the wifey's Series II Scenic when they run down enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markb2501 View Post
    I have a Series II Megane 07 diesel and had to replace my Pilot Sports Michelins earlier in the year though couldn't afford like for like with an impending wedding. I put the RE003s on per recommendation of Jax Tyres and love them. They're as good as the PS tyres I'd had for 40K of hard driving, love them and would out more in again. Looking to upgrade the wifey's Series II Scenic when they run down enough.
    You'll get no criticism of the RE003 from me. They're yet to be tested but bloggers at the Bridgestone preview at Calder a year ago were impressed. They were paired against different competitors for different disciplines & beat the PilotSport3 for handling tautness & tied with the class-leading wet road tyre, the SportContact5, in the wet.

    Regrettably, Bridgestone's "4 for the price of 3" deal expired end of April. Pleasingly, Continental's deal goes until the end of June. Having bought RE003s for my wife's & then a daughter's Foresters when the deals were on & PC5s for another daughter's Corolla a couple of weeks ago, I'm getting 4 PC5s for my 4CVG at the moment (2 165/70-14 fronts & 2 185/60-14 rears). My critics on this forum must at least allow that I put my money where my mouth is.

    cheers! Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armidillo View Post
    OK - that's the 605s & XMs sorted - presume the same comments apply to 205x60R15 91V (for Xantias & 406s)? I have absorbed enough from these discussions to know that conclusions drawn from one size in a range don't necessarily apply to all sizes in that range...

    Interesting to see you recommending Dunlops - I have pretty much written Dunlop off since getting a bad set of Dunlop cross-plies in the 70s .

    Cheers

    Alec
    Sorry Alec, got diverted. Yes, one can't automatically translate across from one size to another. In your case, you're lucky; lots of tests are in 205/55 & that would be a good guide.

    Tyre tests at tyrereviews - Tyre Reviews

    As for Dunlop, my first 4CV (in 1965) came with Dunlop B7+ tyres. Not sure what the '+' indicated but I'd hate to have the ones without it. Needless to say, I upgraded to the "mighty" Michelin X as soon as funds allowed. Snappy? Yes; but they certainly gripped better (even in the wet). Mind you, despite that trauma, I quite liked the fabric belted Dunlop SP41 tyres that came on my 1970 Midget. Much more progressive than the Xas with which I replaced them. Although, because of the asymmetric steel belt arrangement of the latter, they had very crisp turn in.
    I'd fit BluEarth in a flash (or its stablemate the Goodyear EfficientGrip Performance). The choice between either one or the PC5 is, I think, deal-related & Conti's deal is a good one.

    cheers! Peter
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    Quote Originally Posted by graham66 View Post
    They're still available on tyresales.com.au but only 7 pcs left in stock. The price has gone up too since I got mine a few months back.

    Interesting to see how they go. 7% under-gearing will give me quicker response off the mark, right? Being a 1015 it needs that. On the highway it will be quite noticeable I'm guessing. I had thought about the 165/65 but on a GS they need to be as skinny as the originals so as not to foul on the rear sideskirts. Skinnier tyres gives me better economy too.
    when you have had a bit of a go with them, would you be kind enough to report on the experience?

    I note that the EC3 is available in 155/60 as well as 165/65. I wonder how that would go with the GS camber change.

    cheers! Peter

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    ^ sure thing will do

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    Continental's website seems to have dropped the ball recently. Many of the tyre models listed now have no size data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    Continental's website seems to have dropped the ball recently. Many of the tyre models listed now have no size data.
    hmm! I hope that this doesn't mean that someone just stuffed up & the "big expansion" turns out to a big confusion :-(

    cheers! Peter

    ps: I wonder if it was the NZ offering put up originally?
    Last edited by 4cvg; 12th June 2016 at 02:51 AM.

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    I think that my delight was based on a stuff-up by Conti. Certainly my own swift order based on that web listing is confirmed as not able to be supplied (& no plans to stock what I was after). So, enquire, but be prepared to be disappointed.

    We'll see what the response to a just-sent email is. The relevant product range listings are still blank.

    cheers! Peter

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I'm not holding out hope either.

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/172206402966 - Four could be had for about $1000.

    p.s. Do you consider Falken tyres beneath civilised commentary?

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    ec3 and ec5 revised ranges are now up and I expect pc2 and pc5 to be not far away.

    Falken? results a bit mixed but the 914/914 ecorun seems to test badly for wet grip (which would fit the brand generally) - have a trawl at tyre reviews.

    It's not at all clear that the BluResponse is really available. Tyrepower list it in your size but Beaurepaire, & Dunlop Australia themselves, don't. All very puzzling - worth an inquiry.

    If it & the PC5 turn out not to be available, then I'd choose Pirelli's P1 or Hankook's K415 over the 914. Neither is wonderful but at about half the price of importing the pc5 ....

    cheers! Peter

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    A thou is, for tyres that may die of old age, a bit OTT for my budget comfort levels.

    I found it hard to source objective reviews of the ZIEX-912, which is quite cheap in my spec (205/65 15 94V). A lot of consumer static, going both ways, but not quantitative comparisons.

    I need to re-register the subject car by late next week so it may yet end up with more rubbish tyres on the unloved, bent, unoriginal 17 inch rims. My 15" wheels are in storage 450km away and coordinating the re-shoeing plus wheel swapping could be all too much in the time I have free.

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