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    Fellow Frogger! renaultmark's Avatar
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    Icon7 Renault 17 Road Test

    Hello Fellow Froggers

    I came across this Motormanual From January 1973 which road tests the R17.
    It quotes that it is Renaults prestige challenger and writes up a good story.
    Challenging the more expensive Datsun 240Z and BMW 2002 at the top end of market and having an impact on the Fiat 124 Sport. That's a time when Renault had less opposition and could get a head start on the Australian Market.
    If anyone wants this magazine its yours. Just PM your details.

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    Mark
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Renault 17 Road Test-image.jpg   Renault 17 Road Test-image.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by renaultmark View Post
    Hello Fellow Froggers

    I came across this Motormanual From January 1973 which road tests the R17.
    It quotes that it is Renaults prestige challenger and writes up a good story.
    Challenging the more expensive Datsun 240Z and BMW 2002 at the top end of market and having an impact on the Fiat 124 Sport. That's a time when Renault had less opposition and could get a head start on the Australian Market.
    If anyone wants this magazine its yours. Just PM your details.

    Mark
    It's sad that both the 240Z and the 2002 both fetch big dollars these days, whilst you can't give away a 17 unless it's a G.
    rob 240 likes this.

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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno View Post
    It's sad that both the 240Z and the 2002 both fetch big dollars these days, whilst you can't give away a 17 unless it's a G.
    And if all things being equal, when offered a mint original R17, 2002 or 240Z which would you take...?


    Especially in Jap spec Fairlady trim... Sigh. One day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    And if all things being equal, when offered a mint original R17, 2002 or 240Z which would you take...?


    Especially in Jap spec Fairlady trim... Sigh. One day.
    240Z for me. But mainly because I really dislike the R17's styling.

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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    I'm still a bit dark on my Dad for trading his 3 year old 240Z in on the Ro80 when I became a thing. I would have been fine to squeeze on the back...
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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    I did once hanker after a BMW 2002Tii. But after owning a first gen (E21) 3-series, that semi-trailing arm suspension was terrible, only really tamed in the production of the first M3 (E30).


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    Haakon,
    RO80, memorable car . Beautiful on the road.
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    I did once hanker after a BMW 2002Tii. But after owning a first gen (E21) 3-series, that semi-trailing arm suspension was terrible, only really tamed in the production of the first M3 (E30).

    You're the first complaint I heard about it. What was wrong with it? I owned several NK sedans and a 2000 CS coupe and found handling was not one of their problems. Besides, the rear suspension was one of the best. For comparison purposes, my cars had adjustable classic Konis all round.

    Honestly, I would take none of the above. They all are very good cars, but the beemers did not have rack and pinion steering, the Renault was FWD, and the Datsun too big and heavy. If the beemer had Renault's steering (and perhaps its engine too) I would take it any day.

    The Tii is just asking for trouble. A complicated injection system, just fit for the seventies. An unobtainable TiSA is the best of the crop, but the TiLux is not that much different, easy to bring to TiSA spec and a heck of a lot cheaper.

    PS. The CS coupe has the heaviest doors in the universe, I reckon. And the rear seat is only for show. No, really. I tried to take a small friend in the back once and gave up. Looks the coolest, though.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 19th April 2016 at 03:29 PM.
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    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Adding to that list of yesterdays heroes,

    Isuzu Bellett GT

    I saw on in Albury of all places, crap nearly 10years ago now. The lady driver would park behind dean street and go shopping in David Jones (I worked in a retail shop on the street at the time) and I'm kicking myself for not introducing and throwing my phone number at her.

    Has anyone claimed it yet Mark? me?
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    My older Brother bought the latest Celica coupe in April '74 after looking at a few replacements for his R10. I was too young to drive.
    ( maybe it was not having any money to buy a car after leaving school that year !!! )
    There were a lot of coupes on the market at that time. Torana's, Ford Capri , Ford Escorts etc but to me it had to be a Renault. A big disappointment to me when Gerard changed cars. ( He also had Dauphine before the R10 ).

    The Magazine has been relocated to a fellow Frogger. Thanks for all enquirers.

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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Having owned a modified R15TS and still have a modded 2002Tii (for 25 years), I would choose the 240Z, although I have never owned one I always admired them. Jon Siddons, a Gold Coast motor mechanic has again I expect won the Classic class at Targa Tas in one. He has used Zs and Datto 1600s to gather his collection of wins. Well sorted they are a very good track/ race weapon.

    I see it mentioned about 240Z weight being high, but from what I can google 1025Kg is where they are at, hardly overweight and about the same as a 17G and 2002Tii. 280ZXs, yes they were heavy.

    I also like the Bellett GT as my neighbor had one as a rally car when I was young. It sounded great and had a roll cage, a real race car in my eyes at the time, but he moved away and took the little car with him. There were a few GTs at the last RACQ day at Eagle Farm, and yes I still like them.

    Certainly the rear trailing arms on a 2002 do create a lot of camber/toe change through the positioning of the pickup points. These have been moved somewhat on my car, to minimise change, and are on adjustable eccentrics to give more accurate adjustment of toe and camber.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno View Post
    240Z for me. But mainly because I really dislike the R17's styling.
    Don't likeR17 styling but like Fuego's.??? I can feel a religious argument about to be had when Dave has a housewarming.
    I look forward to the apology
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    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
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    Quote Originally Posted by G4ME View Post
    Don't likeR17 styling but like Fuego's.??? I can feel a religious argument about to be had when Dave has a housewarming.
    I look forward to the apology
    .....Paul
    There's no argument. I'm right and you're wrong

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    what have I started
    A war on Renault models haha
    I can feel a new thread starting soon....

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    Would I swap my R17TS for a 240Z. Maybe but I still would have an R15 and an R17G (lot of work to get it on the road though) as well as the 12 G replica. So probably, but I have never driven a 240Z, so I would like a test run first. I do like the thought of an inline 6 and rear wheel drive. Don't want a BMW 2002 they don't do much for me. I do think the Fugeo looks better than either the 240z or R17. The 280Z is out they look too big and clumsy. I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder.

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    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Reaaaaaaaly?

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    Semi-trailing arms could have saved the Triumph company. It was the most significant advance on the swing axle designs of the day. The engineers were so happy slapping each other on the back when they designed it for the 2000, nobody thought about getting a patent.

    Just imagine the royalties Triumph could have received over the next 50 years or so.

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    Default 240 z v the rest

    You are unfair to 240z's - they are not that fat. 280's were obese slugs, but the 240 is very chuckable once sorted.

    Early series 240's were also lighter than late - my son's '70 model very different from my '73 ( thinner metal on the early ones - mixed blessing )

    They need a little attention to suspension to cure an initial understeer problem, but this is amenable to negative camber and a bit of tweaking ( light rear anti roll bar, NOT too big if you value your underwear ). When well set up they turn in well and can then be steered on the throttle.

    In standard form the front wheels have an occasional relationship with the ground above about 130-140 k which can also lead to a slight understeer problem. Front air dam fixes this and they then track very nicely at 190+

    Motor is unkillable and simple. Parts cheap and it can be easily stroked ( 260z crank ), giving 2.8 litres, higher compression and matching numbers. Crank from Nissan Patrol Diesel gives you 3.0L

    Overall strength is that they are brutally simple and well-engineered.Parts common to lots of other Datsuns and soem still available new from Nissan

    BIG problem is rust, which is why they are now attracting big money. Hard to get a good one.

    They do have a lot to recommend them - look at Rally successes, also general racing

    Andrew


    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    You're the first complaint I heard about it. What was wrong with it? I owned several NK sedans and a 2000 CS coupe and found handling was not one of their problems. Besides, the rear suspension was one of the best. For comparison purposes, my cars had adjustable classic Konis all round.

    Honestly, I would take none of the above. They all are very good cars, but the beemers did not have rack and pinion steering, the Renault was FWD, and the Datsun too big and heavy. If the beemer had Renault's steering (and perhaps its engine too) I would take it any day.

    The Tii is just asking for trouble. A complicated injection system, just fit for the seventies. An unobtainable TiSA is the best of the crop, but the TiLux is not that much different, easy to bring to TiSA spec and a heck of a lot cheaper.

    PS. The CS coupe has the heaviest doors in the universe, I reckon. And the rear seat is only for show. No, really. I tried to take a small friend in the back once and gave up. Looks the coolest, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dvr View Post
    Semi-trailing arms could have saved the Triumph company. It was the most significant advance on the swing axle designs of the day. The engineers were so happy slapping each other on the back when they designed it for the 2000, nobody thought about getting a patent.

    Just imagine the royalties Triumph could have received over the next 50 years or so.
    I'm intrigued, what makes the Triumph 2000 setup different and superior from the Renault Fregate and New Class BMW semi-trailing arm rear ends that preceded the Triumph? :-)

    The Triumph was a great idea, flawed by a lack of money, and later, lack of talent and imagination. However, the rear axle was no different in fundamental design from the others around at the time.

    Pics attached: Triumph rear axle (1963), BMW rear axle (1961), Renault Fregate rear axle (1951).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Renault 17 Road Test-rear-axle-triumph-1.jpg   Renault 17 Road Test-rear-axle-bmw-1.jpg   Renault 17 Road Test-rear-axle-renault-1.jpg  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    I'm intrigued, what makes the Triumph 2000 setup different and superior from the Renault Fregate and New Class BMW semi-trailing arm rear ends that preceded the Triumph? :-)

    The Triumph was a great idea, flawed by a lack of money, and later, lack of talent and imagination. However, the rear axle was no different in fundamental design from the others around at the time.

    Pics attached: Triumph rear axle (1963), BMW rear axle (1961), Renault Fregate rear axle (1951).
    Holy Camber change Batman. The Triumph really is 'semi' trailing...
    FedGrapes likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno View Post
    It's sad that both the 240Z and the 2002 both fetch big dollars these days, whilst you can't give away a 17 unless it's a G.
    Who says you can't give away a non-Gordini R17...I've got plenty of room for a free one in my driveway!
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    They were well known for difficult to recover lift off oversteer, which I experienced twice in a pants-filling way. The M3 reduced the trailing angle and also angled the arm by (from memory) lowering the inner mount, to resist this. Stiffer springs also helped. There may have been other subtle changes, but my memory is dim. A slow rack in my E21 didn't help; there was an optional variable rack offered by BMW which was faster.

    Contemporary road tests mentioned this a number of times. I'm surprised this is the first you've heard.

    Admittedly, it is about committing to the corner and not lifting off, but at least in mine didn't offer the control of a Peugeot which also has the same lift off trait. Also, if you did over cook it and not lift off, the back end would come out anyway because of what Alan mentions above.

    The E30's I drove were better than the E21, for sure, probably by virtue of being set up stiffer in roll.



    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    You're the first complaint I heard about it. What was wrong with it? I owned several NK sedans and a 2000 CS coupe and found handling was not one of their problems. Besides, the rear suspension was one of the best. For comparison purposes, my cars had adjustable classic Konis all round.had Renault's steering (and perhaps its engine too) I would take it any day.
    Last edited by Stuey; 23rd April 2016 at 04:17 PM.


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    dvr
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    I'm intrigued, what makes the Triumph 2000 setup different and superior from the Renault Fregate and New Class BMW semi-trailing arm rear ends that preceded the Triumph? :-)

    The Triumph was a great idea, flawed by a lack of money, and later, lack of talent and imagination. However, the rear axle was no different in fundamental design from the others around at the time.

    Pics attached: Triumph rear axle (1963), BMW rear axle (1961), Renault Fregate rear axle (1951).
    Well that explodes my myth about Triumph inventing the semi-trailing independent suspension. And that the Fregate had it back in '51...wow just wow.

    I'd believed that story for years after reading about a Triumph Vitesse race car in the US.

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    A little discussion over an ale or two......

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