Engine Noise???
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Thread: Engine Noise???

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Shoji's Avatar
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    Default Engine Noise???

    807-10 Engine noise in R17

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    • Sounds similar to tappet noise
    • Been there for months
    • Since sorting out tuning and carbie issues
    • Note: this engine was out of tune for some time, maybe years (early ignition).
    • Car drives well.
    • While driving in any gear
    • More so, while cold
    • Have adjusted the tappets gap warm, little was found or needed.
    • Seems to come from top area of engine compartment while driving
    • No sound while revving under the hood
    • It sounds when I get to around 2500~3000 rpm
    • At cruising it sounds at 2500~3000 rpm
    • If I accelerate, the noise quietens
    • Worn cam, chain, chain shoes, auto chain tensioner, gears, bent push rod?

    Any ideas, team Renault?
    Cheers. John
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Look at rocker system, normally rocker shaft !!!!

    Ray
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    Ray geckoeng

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  3. #3
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    Just putting it out there, a lazy oil pump at low revs?

    Dave
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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Cam and follower wear is not unheard of with these engines, but normally this results in the cam follower wearing concave which results in the tappet clearance getting wider. As you said the clearances don't seem to be opening so this wear is unlikely. The rocker face where it strikes the top of the valve can wear, and can mean that when you set the clearance the hollow is bridged by the feeler gauge so the setting is actually larger than that set.
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  5. #5
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    Default Tappets !!

    Hi John
    I think Alan is probably right if it sounds like tappets. And perhaps geokeng too. How many ks has it done !!

    But setting worn tappets properly is not so hard to do better. The access is good so get the correct feeler gauges and cut them down to just 5-6mm wide. Then set the tappets with these strips in the worn area. They go into the worn rocker area above the valve stem and do not bridge the ridge

    If that does not improve it then you can see how the play feels on the rockers. They can get very worn if the oil has become sludgy due to lack of proper oil changes, which gives little flow to the top end. Probably live with play till you do a rebuild. But the rockers could be rebuilt without a full rebuild if that was the only problem.
    Jaahn
    PS I recall the tappet bucket bases were always worn concave a bit because from new they were ground flat and not convex. Seemed to last OK for normal use so that was the design factor I guess
    Last edited by jaahn; 20th March 2016 at 09:57 PM.
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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Shoji's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore View Post
    Cam and follower wear is not unheard of with these engines, but normally this results in the cam follower wearing concave which results in the tappet clearance getting wider. As you said the clearances don't seem to be opening so this wear is unlikely. The rocker face where it strikes the top of the valve can wear, and can mean that when you set the clearance the hollow is bridged by the feeler gauge so the setting is actually larger than that set.
    Hi Alan and Jaahn
    Right. This makes sense. I need to set tappets again. And with a modified feeler gauge as Jaahn has recommended.
    Thank you so much, all of you in this thread!
    You knowledge is so valuable.
    I will let you know what the outcome is.........
    John
    Last edited by Shoji; 20th March 2016 at 11:40 PM.
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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I feel inclined to go with poor lubrication (which in time will lead to worn timing gear).

    The engines I opened showed that a lot of gunk accumulates in the rocker arm shafts and builds an obstruction to the rocker arm oiling holes (positioned right under the rocker arms). Ultimately this results in rocker arms wearing the shafts and creating excessive play. I would hazard a guess yours might have gone there already.

    I would take the pushrods out, flip the rocker arms backwards and inspect contact faces. If they show wear, your arms need refacing.

    Wear does not show as gaps as some suggested but as flattened sections across the ROUND face of the rocker arm tip (valve stem side). If you have gaps (or imprints of the valve stem), that means your tappets are gone well and truly into the non hardened metal because of poor lubrication and they need polishing and hardening. Without it, they won‘t last long.

    If they don‘t show the signs described above or (too much) wear, you‘re lucky. I would then take out the rocker shafts. You can do it without taking out the headbolts, just remove the rollpins at the ends of shafts and tap gently the shafts out after you make notes of arms and pushrods so you can put them in the same position. Once the shafts are out, take out the welch plugs at their ends and clean them properly. A lot of really disgusting muck is going to come out. Inspect the surfaces too.

    If you don‘t see any wear (or very little), I would leave alone, reassemble and take it from there.

    If there is wear, you will see wear from the thrust springs that keep rocker arms in place (not fatal) and you will see wear from rocker arms cocked sideways. That is a problem. If gone too far you might have to reface the shafts and the rocker arms will have similar wear inside. I had mine metal sprayed and reground and the rocker arms honed to the new diameter (in fact first you hone the rocker arms to determine what diameter the shaft will need to end up with). If you get there, you will of course have to hone the bridge shaft retainers as well, so it‘s a head off job.

    Nobody said it was going to be easy.

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    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 21st March 2016 at 08:06 AM.
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    Just replaced a head gasket on my R17TS. After reading this I now wish I had put more effort into cleaning and checking the overhead gear. I just gave it a quick wash and stuck it back on. Oh well not taking it to bits again now.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Shoji's Avatar
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    When I took the rocker cover off last week thinking now, there did not seem to be much oil around the top of the head. Where it would pool. But I could be wrong. Not a mechanic. Thanks Schiltz
    More work to do
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Shoji's Avatar
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    Hey Sunroof. Reason for head gasket change? Just a look?
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    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoji View Post
    Hey Sunroof. Reason for head gasket change? Just a look?
    I normally do this to find out why the engine is running so well.
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  12. #12
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    Also forgot, ensure the pushrods are straight.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by driven View Post
    Also forgot, ensure the pushrods are straight.
    Yes i did think about that one. I read if engines are way out of tune it could cause problems, like a bent push rod.
    Thanks driven
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoji View Post
    Hey Sunroof. Reason for head gasket change? Just a look?
    Sitting on 140 kph and just about to change into 5th when the radiator hose burst. Head gasket blew. Just a week or two before I had redone the head bolts and tappets as per the manual. Oh and just for those that worry about speeding on our roads, I was at Queensland raceway for our club Happy Laps. I was in the slow group with the Fregate and a 4CV. The R17TS isn't fast enough to mix it with the modern Renaults. Or perhaps it's the driver. Now if it had some suspension mods and had wide sticky tyres I'd do much better.


  15. #15
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    I was in the slow group with the Fregate and a 4CV. The R17TS isn't fast enough to mix it with the modern Renaults. Or perhaps it's the driver. Now if it had some suspension mods and had wide sticky tyres I'd do much better.

    Did you beat the 4CV?
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Shoji's Avatar
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    I have just finished setting the tappets. 0.2 on the inlets and 0.25 on the exhaust. I grind down some feelers to 5mm wide
    Yes there is uneven surfaces on the rockers and valve stems.
    I have manually rocked them myself to check for play. I believe they are good now.

    But I still have this noise at 2800~3000 RPM.
    Belts, t/chain shoes, auto adjuster, I don't know now. Just old.
    Geckoeng, I might come to see you with this one.

    "Look at rocker system, normally rocker shaft !!!!" Ray
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

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