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Thread: Is this what some of us have been looking for?

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Default Is this what some of us have been looking for?

    Maybe it'll end up in Australia?

    2016 Renault Scenic debut: Fourth-generation vehicle breaks new ground | Motoring News | Lifestyle | The Independent

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    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    I doubt it. The people mover market is sewn up by Toyota and Kia and people movers are hardly a big seller in number of vehicles.

    They are both powered by meaty V6s. The top end Tarago having the Aurion drivetrain and 202 Kw V6.

    As a rough and ready conversion 21, 000 Euro converts to around $31, 000 Australian dollars. But of course it sell for more than than that.

    So , I'm thinking it may , sadly, be another Renault non starter for Oz.

    Time will tell ....

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    NSW has 6.25 million registered vehicles, of which 70,000 are people movers. The number has been slowly falling.

    I don't know how they sell Australia wide, but it's a long time since I saw a Toyota version around here.

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    It's almost like a 4 door Avantime in concept. Nice.
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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Every good Catholic family needs a people mover, surely? There's 7,000,000 to start with....
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Yeah I think so too. Not sure about Toyota, but I doubt too many people would regard a people mover as a good choice of primary car (save for the soccer mum brigade). I think Kia will ultimately win mainly through price.

    In Europe it may sell quite well, but outside I doubt it. Besides, it looks like a small people mover, so not sure where exactly it can fit. The long dash takes about half the car and I would expect visibility in the corners would be quite bad. Just good for a soccer mum.

    In Europe large cars with big engines are taxed into oblivion (In Norway it seems they want to do away with them altogether).

    That said, Ghosn seems to know what he's doing.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    The new Scenic has diesels from 94 to 158 bhp and the biggest petrol engine produces 128 bhp. I doubt whether any of the engines is over two litres. They have also put it on 20" wheels "to make it look smaller".......???
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Yeah I think so too. Not sure about Toyota, but I doubt too many people would regard a people mover as a good choice of primary car (save for the soccer mum brigade). I think Kia will ultimately win mainly through price.

    In Europe it may sell quite well, but outside I doubt it. Besides, it looks like a small people mover, so not sure where exactly it can fit. The long dash takes about half the car and I would expect visibility in the corners would be quite bad. Just good for a soccer mum.

    In Europe large cars with big engines are taxed into oblivion (In Norway it seems they want to do away with them altogether).

    That said, Ghosn seems to know what he's doing.
    Every driven a 2.4 litre people mover with 8 people up ?

    For some applications Cubic inches are the best option. In spite of what manufacturers try to sell or what environmental pundits endorse.

    I agree Toyota are very exe. But are still a far more refined drive than the Kia.


    The new Scenic has diesels from 94 to 158 bhp and the biggest petrol engine produces 128 bhp.
    The most powerful engine is still only around 118 kw compared to the "opposition" 200 kw odd.
    Diesel or no diesel eight people can be a heavy load. And I have my doubts about the drivability when fully loaded.
    Last edited by robmac; 11th March 2016 at 10:59 AM.

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    I doubt it. The nearest is the Koleos and whatever Korean they replace it with. Pity.

    I'm quite in love with our Series II Scenics. I'm wondering whether they'll be the last "clever" Renaults we see.
    JohnW

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    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
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    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I doubt it. The nearest is the Koleos and whatever Korean they replace it with. Pity.

    I'm quite in love with our Series II Scenics. I'm wondering whether they'll be the last "clever" Renaults we see.
    JohnW, I am sure you mean the Phase I Scenics, not the Phase II, which were god-awful, not 'clever' at all and sadly killed that segment here in Australia.
    This new 2016 Scenic does not do it for me at all. Too flat, too low, too little headroom, and with the large glass area and severely swept back windscreen totally unsuitable for our climate as you would fry in there in summer.
    Last edited by mistareno; 11th March 2016 at 09:34 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Every driven a 2.4 litre people mover with 8 people up ?

    For some applications Cubic inches are the best option. In spite of what manufacturers try to sell or what environmental pundits endorse.

    I agree Toyota are very exe. But are still a far more refined drive than the Kia.




    The most powerful engine is still only around 118 kw compared to the "opposition" 200 kw odd.
    Diesel or no diesel eight people can be a heavy load. And I have my doubts about the drivability when fully loaded.
    One of the things Renault invented was the turbocharger and, how often have you driven a fully loaded turbocharged eight seater?
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I doubt it. The nearest is the Koleos and whatever Korean they replace it with. Pity.

    I'm quite in love with our Series II Scenics. I'm wondering whether they'll be the last "clever" Renaults we see.
    The Koleos is built in Korea, by Renault in the Samsung factory they just happen to own. It was designed in France and engineered by Nissan. Hardly Korean at all, except for things like quality control and reliability....................
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Breitie View Post
    JohnW, I am sure you mean the Phase I Scenics, not the Phase II, which were god-awful, not 'clever' at all and sadly killed that segment here in Australia.
    This new 2016 Scenic does not do it for me at all. Too flat, too low, too little headroom, and with the large glass area and severely swept back windscreen totally unsuitable for our climate as you would fry in there in summer.
    I much preferred the Scenic II. It drove a lot better and the cabin was much nicer. The only 'problem' imo was it looked smaller and less monospace/van like than the previous one, despite being bigger and more spacious inside. I think the styling made it look a size smaller.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    One of the things Renault invented was the turbocharger and, how often have you driven a fully loaded turbocharged eight seater?
    The thing that really matters is the engine power. Turbocharge or otherwise doesn't matter a toss. And if a 2.4 can achieve the same power as a Renault Diesel then your argument is irrelevant.

    The point I'm making is that ANY people mover with around 500 kg of passengers and 118 kw propelling it down the road will be no fireball.

    The specific point is that the 2.4 Tarago, with 125kw engine, and 8 people up, IS definitely no fireball, from first hand experience. Power to weight ratio tells me that. I hired one a few years back to do a tour with family members.

    However, the 202kw V6 is a bloody fireball, I've owned one and yes, I have loaded it with passengers.

    The comparison is a non event.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyEtKTDBkhc

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    The thing that really matters is the engine power. Turbocharge or otherwise doesn't matter a toss. And if a 2.4 can achieve the same power as a Renault Diesel then your argument is irrelevant.

    The point I'm making is that ANY people mover with around 500 kg of passengers and 118 kw propelling it down the road will be no fireball.

    The specific point is that the 2.4 Tarago, with 125kw engine, and 8 people up, IS definitely no fireball, from first hand experience. Power to weight ratio tells me that. I hired one a few years back to do a tour with family members.

    However, the 202kw V6 is a bloody fireball, I've owned one and yes, I have loaded it with passengers.

    The comparison is a non event.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyEtKTDBkhc
    Rob, I'm not sure you understand what role torque has in all this. In a diesel engine it can be and often is produced in spades, after all, look at the outputs of those dishonest and dirty VW/Audi products. Torque is pulling power, bhp or KW are just for revheads. Truck engines pull heavy loads. They use power, yes, but without massive torque they would never get moving or climb hills.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Rob, I'm not sure you understand what role torque has in all this. In a diesel engine it can be and often is produced in spades, after all, look at the outputs of those dishonest and dirty VW/Audi products. Torque is pulling power, bhp or KW are just for revheads. Truck engines pull heavy loads. They use power, yes, but without massive torque they would never get moving or climb hills.
    Kim, I'm sure all these vehicles will be adequate to drive.

    However it is really taking things to ridiculous extremes to claim a that a 120 kw turbo diesel can compete any in way shape of form with a 202Kw/ 340 Nm V6. Torque bands, turbo chargers factored in.

    No matter how rose colored your glasses may be, it just won't happen.

    Not that I'm saying the Renault won't be adequate for light loads, but add 500 kg (or a bit more) of livestock and any 120 kw engine will be battling up steep hills or overtaking.

    And sadly the Toyota/ Kia market is where any Renault people mover be competing.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Kim, I'm sure all these vehicles will be adequate to drive.

    However it is really taking things to ridiculous extremes to claim a that a 120 kw turbo diesel can compete any in way shape of form with a 202Kw/ 340 Nm V6. Torque bands, turbo chargers factored in.

    No matter how rose colored your glasses may be, it just won't happen.

    Not that I'm saying the Renault won't be adequate for light loads, but add 500 kg (or a bit more) of livestock and any 120 kw engine will be battling up steep hills or overtaking.

    And sadly the Toyota/ Kia market is where any Renault people mover be competing.
    I have fond memories of towing a pop top caravan about 14' long behind the early model R12 1289cc wagon full of gear. Now that was a struggle, on the flat it would hit 120km/h using all of it's 45kW. I'd suggest a 158 kW diesel (as mentioned in the article) and eight people would be a much more enjoyable experience....but as the vehicle is yet to reach our or anyone else's shores, it's all conjecture......
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Further investigation reveals that the 2016 Scenic is, like the original Scenic, a five seater. There is also a seven seater in the pipeline, so either way, it isn't a Kia or Tarago replacement. We can all breathe a sigh of relief..........The new 2016 Renault Scenic is here: have they reinvented the MPV? by CAR Magazine
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I have fond memories of towing a pop top caravan about 14' long behind the early model R12 1289cc wagon full of gear. Now that was a struggle, on the flat it would hit 120km/h using all of it's 45kW. I'd suggest a 158 kW diesel (as mentioned in the article) and eight people would be a much more enjoyable experience....but as the vehicle is yet to reach our or anyone else's shores, it's all conjecture......
    I think you'll find it's the dci160 engine (160PS - not kw).

    That said, because the torque spread is low and wide. When mated to a good auto, it will keep it in the torque band and provide great performance and hill climbing ability, even with a load.

    It's the same with Turbo diesel utes. They may only have 130kw but with 400+nm available, they can tow 3500kg and do it with ease.

    I imagine that a Scenic fitted with the 120kw/380nm dci160 would provide fairly swift performance without having to rev the crap out of it.

    A petrol V6 in a Tarago may be quick on paper or on a drag strip, but who wants to rev the crap out of family hauler to make progress? In a Megane RS, yeah, bring it on. In an MPV...I'm not so sure..

    FWIW, the dci160 fitted to the heavier Talisman does 0-100 in 9.4 and achieves 4.5L/100....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno View Post
    I much preferred the Scenic II. It drove a lot better and the cabin was much nicer. The only 'problem' imo was it looked smaller and less monospace/van like than the previous one, despite being bigger and more spacious inside. I think the styling made it look a size smaller.
    I think this one belongs in the Guiness book. Though you might be the only person in existence who wants their car to look more like a people mover. Usually it`s the other way around.
    JohnW likes this.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I think this one belongs in the Guiness book. Though you might be the only person in existence who wants their car to look more like a people mover. Usually it`s the other way around.
    I think you misunderstood. I personally much prefer the styling of the Scenic 2, but I think it lost sales by not looking like a psuedo mpv. By looking smaller and less monospace than Scenic 1 it moved away from what made it a success, hence it was a 'problem'.

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