tower troubles
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Thread: tower troubles

  1. #1
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    Default tower troubles

    I have been reading every ones comments about the rust in my tower. Buying another car for now is not an option. I tend to agree with Gamma that it was probably a manufacturing problem. Neither my friends or myself have seen anything like it. I have checked Renee all over and cannot find rust any where else. It appears to be only in this one place. I was also chuffed to hear that John W learnt to drive in Boyup. I don't claim to be an automobile mechanic or university trained engineer. I did however do my apprenticeship at Qantas airways. I don't know if people think I am going to use pop rivets. I agree that this would be nowhere strong enough. I plan to use either specific length bolts with nyloc nuts. Alternatively I would prefer to use dome head solid steel rivets. If after everything is repaired and put back together, I can find a welder capable of welding the repair I will do that as well. I am confident in my skills and experience in repairing and maintaining aircraft to have faith in my repair. It will obviously need continuous monitoring for movement and/or rust. Any further input or advice will always be welcomed. Yours Sincerely Shane

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    It's not going to look pretty, but you could use a panel joining glue and then rivet the plate on. The Glue does the work, the rivets just keep it in place until it dries.

    Many Modern cars are extensively glued instead of welded and the reason is structural rigidity gains.

    For the doubters, planes that use rivets holding together aluminium panels are also glued. The rivet doesn't take much load once the glue has set but the rivets can give an indication if the adhesive has failed due to corrosion or fatigue as the skin will stretch around the rivets. .

  3. #3
    Veni Vidi Posti 68 404's Avatar
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    Shane51,

    Do you have to start a new thread with a spurious title every time you post?
    If makes it hard for searches in future and surely it's better to keep your Renault 19 stuff in the same thread?

    Dave
    2008 Renault Laguna 2.0 dCi break
    ​1997 BMW K1200RS

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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Strip off the guard and suspension, unpick the part and weld in a new one. Do it properly...

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    Fellow Frogger! rubyalpine's Avatar
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    I worked in a motorhome factory, and many of the body components were glued on with "CARBOND". You will never be able to pull them apart. Better than welding, does not promote rust.

    Henry
    When I find my feet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'll know where I stand!

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    G'day Rubyalpine (Henry), could you please tell me more about this Carbond. I have never heard of it. Where is it available? How much does it cost? How thick can you apply it? I noticed that Misterino mentioned a glue used in aircraft construction. Do you know if it is the same stuff? I have worked on all types of aircraft from Jumbos to small Cesnas ect. I have never heard of it. We used to use a high tech sealant to keep the plane air tight, but rivets and hi-loks is what primarily held everything together. Yours Sincerely Shane.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    And Mr Google shows up:

    Automotive Products | Soudal Aus

    However, I can't say that a flexible structural bond sounds too enticing.

    It would probably be excellent in conjunction with some mechanical fixing.

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! rubyalpine's Avatar
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    Hi Shane51,
    As far as I know, Carbond is available from Bunnings in foil "sausage" packs. You will therefore need to get a "sausage gun" to easily apply it. (also from Bunnings) It was still in regular use when I retired 2 years ago and was available in grey and white. My employer at the time obviously got it direct from a wholesaler. It needs to be clamped, screwed or riveted until cured.
    I hope this helps.

    Henry
    When I find my feet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'll know where I stand!

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Shoji's Avatar
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    Sikkaflex body building assembly adhesive 252 with anti vibration properties. used in the body building industry and probably the same as carbond. So strong i built a cabin for an old boat out of aluminium signage board and angle with rivets and the glue. Have done bottom sills on cars before with rivets and bonding glues. But weld where it really needs for safety.tower troubles-20151021_151105.jpg
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoji View Post
    Sikkaflex body building assembly adhesive 252 with anti vibration properties. used in the body building industry and probably the same as carbond. So strong i built a cabin for an old boat out of aluminium signage board and angle with rivets and the glue. Have done bottom sills on cars before with rivets and bonding glues. But weld where it really needs for safety.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20151021_151105.jpg 
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    The major problem with adhesives for repair application is bonding to corroded panels. And even if you clean them first, the corrosion returns at a later date.

    100% satisfactory for surface treated aluminium, but not so good on auto steel.

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    G'day Robmac, adhesives and sealants have so many opponents/supporters as there sealants and adhesives. I have treated the rust with a wire brush and then anti rust. I will also spray all the parts with anti rust primer before I assemble everything. Now whether I put sealant or this auto adhesive in between the repair plates and the strut really seems to depend on whose opinion you tend to believe. I have had people say both products can cause rust. Sealant I imagine would give more "cushioning between all the parts. It is also flexible and easier to remove if needed in the future for any reason. The auto adhesive would give me added strength. If it is going to be so hard as to crack between the repair plates because of inflexibility. People are also telling me once it is on it is almost impossible to remove without a grinder. I believe with the proper precautions and preparation neither should cause me further problems with rust. The dilemma is whether I go for strength or flexibility. Both of course are reliant on a good repair job. Opinions on both methods would be appreciated. Yours Sincerely Shane.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    I am struggling to exactly imagine the damage, but i say strength.

    Flexibility is not desirable in macferson strut design or probably any other part of automotive chasis design, and is probably what started all your troubles in the first place.

    Of course where stiffens ends, flexibility starts...... so be careful to not move the problem somewhere else important.

    Jo

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    You are so right with your last line Jo. As I have said I am not a university trained engineer. I have though repaired damaged/corroded structures on aircraft. After all that is my trade. The main problem is with the repair itself. If it is too weak the problem quickly reoccurs. If the repair is too strong it just transfers the problem to another part of the surrounding structure. The engineered designs aimed to be 20% stronger than the original structure. I have taken photos along the way. I want to finish off the repair, timing belt, CV boot and fan belt first. Yours Sincerely Shane.

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    G'day/PS Jo, became a little side tracked. The specific damage is that the suspension tower is rusted and separated from the body. The only place unaffected is where it is welded to the firewall. There is absolutely no visible rust any where else in the vehicle. Yours Sincerely Shane.

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