807-10 Fine Tuning - Help
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    Icon1 807-10 Fine Tuning - Help

    Ok. I'm not a mechanic but have been trying to tweak this old engine for sometime, to run better at idle mostly.
    The facts and chores done:

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    • She's old and done 160,000 miles
    • 807-10 motor, 1312 on the firewall, manual 4 sp box
    • Replaced the spark plugs, points, capacitor, leads, rotor, distrib cap. double checked all correct types/model
    • Carby is cleaned and functioning well. leveled the bottom heat plate
    • New electric fuel pump
    • Air fuel filters replaced
    • All fuel pipes in good nick
    • Oil and filter replaced
    • No air leaks.
    • Oil breather pipes set up as should be and clean
    • No oil fumes from exhaust. a bit black in pipe
    • A little blow back
    • Choke cable reconditioned.
    • All original non replaceable parts still attached. No retro stuff
    • No air intake warming pipe used from exhaust manifold
    • Distributor working well and lubed
    • Set to 3 degree -+1 using strobe
    • Plugs set to 0.6mm and points set to 0.4mm
    • Webber 32 DIR carby idling set as should be by book tweaking it many times.
    • Runs and drives well
    • Exhaust just repaired
    • Starter motor repaired
    • The problem.....
    • Smells a little from un-burnt fuel. is this it? Carby not set up right?
    • Smells a little from gearbox oil on the exhaust pipe
    • Still runs a little rough when warm at idle
    • I think that's all...


    Any help from the mechanics out there?? Or should I just stick to woodwork... John
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

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    COL
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    Hi Shoji

    The smell of un-burnt petrol could be the float level is to high, or maybe the needle and seat leaks a bit.

    The smell of burnt gearbox oil on the exhaust will be the left hand output shaft seal leaking gearbox oil and most likely the right hand one will leak as well.

    The rough idle maybe the fact that the motor has done many miles and the compressions on the cylinders maybe a little un-even.
    Have you done a compression test?

    Hope this helps a bit.
    Regards Col

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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Hi Shoji

    The smell of un-burnt petrol could be the float level is to high, or maybe the needle and seat leaks a bit.

    The smell of burnt gearbox oil on the exhaust will be the left hand output shaft seal leaking gearbox oil and most likely the right hand one will leak as well.

    The rough idle maybe the fact that the motor has done many miles and the compressions on the cylinders maybe a little un-even.
    Have you done a compression test?

    Hope this helps a bit.

    Hi Col
    The float level did look ok but not checked/adjusted. I have a pair of glasses I use for fine woodwork. The needle and seat on the carby look good. but it is something I should check into now it has been cleaned.

    Compression... bugger I didn't want to go there. But it did occur to me it should be checked, especially if there is a little blow back.
    Thanks Col
    John
    Last edited by Shoji; 20th January 2016 at 09:58 PM.
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    What is the fuel pump pressure? With changing to an electric pump, you may need a regulator. Also check the distributor markings R243/D60 = 0 degrees, R266/D59 = 3 degrees.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    What is the fuel pump pressure? With changing to an electric pump, you may need a regulator. Also check the distributor markings R243/D60 = 0 degrees, R266/D59 = 3 degrees.
    Where exactly do I find those markings Simon? I'm half blind. Lol It doesn't run very well at 0 degrees
    God, a regulator? don't they just shut off automatically when pressure is high? Mechanic, here I come.
    Last edited by Shoji; 20th January 2016 at 10:21 PM.
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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    What is the fuel pump pressure? With changing to an electric pump, you may need a regulator. Also check the distributor markings R243/D60 = 0 degrees, R266/D59 = 3 degrees.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shoji View Post
    Where exactly do I find those markings Simon? I'm half blind. Lol
    God, a regulator? don't they just shut off automatically when pressure is high? Mechanic, here I come.
    Those markings are on the side of the distributor.
    Regards Col

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Your new electric fuel pump will overcome the needle if it's not regulated (and the needle/float need proper checking). I would clear out these problems first and then I would look at the spark plug gaps and points they both seem a bit low to me (can't remember the book specs).
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    i have an electric fuel pump feeding twin DCOE webers with no regulator. also had an electric fuel pump feeding a Carter carby with no regulator on my old jeep. neither had any problems.

    the only problem i ever had with electric fuel pumps was neglecting to put a filter between the pump and the tank.
    it should be obvious but as they are typically sited near the tank it is easy to overlook.

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    Check the state of the insulators between the top of the spark plugs and the high tension leads. They tend to give trouble after you pressure wash the engine bay. Replace if you can.
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    There are two different electric fuel pumps. High pressure and low pressure. You need a low pressure. If you did get a high pressure pump a regulator is a must. I have two side draft Webers fed by a low pressure electric pump and found that the pump caused the fuel in the fuel bowl to slosh or spray around when coming through the needle and seat upsetting the level, which is critical. A regulator fixed the problem. From memory Webers require less than 3 lb/in pressure. In fact I think it should be 2 or less. My car came with a regulator which I removed that was when I had trouble. So I bought a new regulator fitted into the pump outlet line and trouble ceased.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    What is the fuel pump pressure? With changing to an electric pump, you may need a regulator. Also check the distributor markings R243/D60 = 0 degrees, R266/D59 = 3 degrees.
    Did you check the timing with a strobe light, or have you done it manually. Also when checking the timing the vacuum advance should be removed and blocked off.
    My 807 distributors are modified to give a total of 32 degrees at approx 3800 rpm, with around 10 degrees initial, and no vacuum advance, but then I run more compression and a bigger cam too, so not really comparable to yours, although a bit more initial up to 6 will probably still be OK if running 98 octane.
    The idle mixture screw is usually out approx 1.5 turns, but needs to be fine tuned from there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore View Post
    Did you check the timing with a strobe light, or have you done it manually. Also when checking the timing the vacuum advance should be removed and blocked off.
    My 807 distributors are modified to give a total of 32 degrees at approx 3800 rpm, with around 10 degrees initial, and no vacuum advance, but then I run more compression and a bigger cam too, so not really comparable to yours, although a bit more initial up to 6 will probably still be OK if running 98 octane.
    The idle mixture screw is usually out approx 1.5 turns, but needs to be fine tuned from there.

    Hi Alan, very helpful. I need to work on her. I use strobe light. I will try a few things and get back to you on the outcome
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

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    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore View Post
    Did you check the timing with a strobe light, or have you done it manually. Also when checking the timing the vacuum advance should be removed and blocked off.
    My 807 distributors are modified to give a total of 32 degrees at approx 3800 rpm, with around 10 degrees initial, and no vacuum advance, but then I run more compression and a bigger cam too, so not really comparable to yours, although a bit more initial up to 6 will probably still be OK if running 98 octane.
    The idle mixture screw is usually out approx 1.5 turns, but needs to be fine tuned from there.
    Mine is similar to Alan's perhaps 8 - 10 degrees initial, dizzy modified to give a similar 32 degrees, but it is a standard TS engine therefore slightly more compression and warmer cam, than your engine, also running side draft Webers (instead of fuel injection) and no vacuum advance. The reason the dizzy is modified and there is no vacuum advance is because of the side draft Webers. This is not some thing that will bother you with a down draft carby. I have also replaced the points with electronic spark as I could not get the points to work satisfactorily.

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    If the shaft is worn ,there could be air sucking in there ,its going to have more effect at idle than with the throttle open ,what are the symptoms that you are trying to eliminate re the idle ,you could try connecting the carb up to a fuel tank from an old mower say, see how it runs on gravity feed ,disconnect wire to electric pump while testing, pugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugwash View Post
    If the shaft is worn ,there could be air sucking in there ,its going to have more effect at idle than with the throttle open ,what are the symptoms that you are trying to eliminate re the idle ,you could try connecting the carb up to a fuel tank from an old mower say, see how it runs on gravity feed ,disconnect wire to electric pump while testing, pugs
    When I go to the back to listen to the exhaust, it smells and has a put put rough tune sound.
    There is no slack in the main shaft on the carbie. But I like the ideas you mentioned.
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    There are two different electric fuel pumps. High pressure and low pressure. You need a low pressure. If you did get a high pressure pump a regulator is a must. I have two side draft Webers fed by a low pressure electric pump and found that the pump caused the fuel in the fuel bowl to slosh or spray around when coming through the needle and seat upsetting the level, which is critical. A regulator fixed the problem. From memory Webers require less than 3 lb/in pressure. In fact I think it should be 2 or less. My car came with a regulator which I removed that was when I had trouble. So I bought a new regulator fitted into the pump outlet line and trouble ceased.
    I would have stuck with the motors original top mount fuel pump but haven't been able to find a new diaphragm for it yet. it was leaking. other than that. it seems complicated with more devices to calibrate. Woodworker - not Mechanic. But so far have done all the work myself.
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

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    There has been no mention of the spark plug colour. That could be entertaining and informative. May confirm the carby problem, with the black exhaust and the smells
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    Today: Just found the distributor is a R273 which by the book (Haynes) set it to 5-7 degrees. but it seems happier on 8-9
    I had it on 3-5
    Points set to .4
    Plugs set to .6
    3.25 turns on the idle mixture Fuel system is all good. Check the gap setting for the float. ok

    It still a little miss when I listen to the exhaust
    all service replaceables are new. see original post
    Distributor worn maybe? or electrically spark shorting out somewhere? the spark plug extension shaft insulators?

    later I will see if she still stinks. When I reverse in to my garage after coming home from work, the garage stinks and I have to leave the door open for a bit. is it oil?
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

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    COL
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    Hi Shoji

    3.25 turns seems a little bit to far out to me. You should be able to screw the idle mixture control in and make the engine stall and also screw it out and make the engine stall.

    With this rough idle have you checked the valve clearances, they may be a little tight.

    un-burnt petrol smell is different to oil burning smell from the exhaust, do you have black smoke or blue smoke exiting the exhaust is you give the engine a good rev from idle?

    Can't think of anything else at the moment, but know doubt others will come up with ideas.
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    Regards Col

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    I have found recently that with a few older motors that the initial advance settings mentioned in the manuals seems to be low. Perhaps modern fuel requires a few degrees more as they seem to me to run better if you add a couple of extra degrees. I don't remember that being the case years ago the book settings always seemed to be ok. But then old memory often plays tricks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Hi Shoji

    3.25 turns seems a little bit to far out to me. You should be able to screw the idle mixture control in and make the engine stall and also screw it out and make the engine stall.

    With this rough idle have you checked the valve clearances, they may be a little tight.

    un-burnt petrol smell is different to oil burning smell from the exhaust, do you have black smoke or blue smoke exiting the exhaust is you give the engine a good rev from idle?

    Can't think of anything else at the moment, but know doubt others will come up with ideas.

    No smoke at all. just the smell.
    I think what Alan said (mechanic) about 1.5 turns and my 3.25 turns. something is not right. I have tried this many times to tweak it. does it mean that the idle fuel is higher??? thus the smell?
    Or is she a bit worn and just accept it for what it is?

    I pulled apart the carbie two weeks ago to check it and found a little sediment in the bowl. I carefully flattened the heat base both sides and the carbie base. all good. I carefully cleaned it out and put it back together. It is all original and in good condition. But not knowing what has been done to it the past, if any bits overtightened, is in the back of my mind. I bought a kit (guy in Qld Classic Carbs) but it only consisted of gaskets only. Not needle and seat or jets.
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Hi Shoji

    3.25 turns seems a little bit to far out to me. You should be able to screw the idle mixture control in and make the engine stall and also screw it out and make the engine stall.

    With this rough idle have you checked the valve clearances, they may be a little tight.

    un-burnt petrol smell is different to oil burning smell from the exhaust, do you have black smoke or blue smoke exiting the exhaust is you give the engine a good rev from idle?

    Can't think of anything else at the moment, but know doubt others will come up with ideas.

    No smoke at all. just the smell.
    I think what Alan said (mechanic) about 1.5 turns and my 3.25 turns. something is not right. I have tried this many times to tweak it. does it mean that the idle fuel is higher??? thus the smell?
    Or is she a bit worn and just accept it for what it is?

    I pulled apart the carbie two weeks ago to check it and found a little sediment in the bowl. I carefully flattened the heat base both sides and the carbie base. all good. I carefully cleaned it out and put it back together. But not knowing what has been done to it the past, if any bits overtightened, is in the back of my mind. I bought a kit (guy in Qld Classic Carbs) but it only consisted of gaskets only. Not needle and seat or jets.
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

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    1000+ Posts Shoji's Avatar
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    Stalls at no more than 1 full turn from 3.25
    I should be doing some work.............Lol
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

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    Need to get the compressions from each cylinder. Otherwise may be just wasting time and money on externals.
    Just wasted my 5 cents. 2 Cents are no longer valid currency

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    Quote Originally Posted by driven View Post
    Need to get the compressions from each cylinder. Otherwise may be just wasting time and money on externals.
    Just wasted my 5 cents. 2 Cents are no longer valid currency
    Doesn't 2 Cents get rounded down to 0 Cents. Therefore "Free Advice"
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