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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Default R12 Timing

    Guys.

    There are no timing marks on my R12 motor (type 842-01 1251cc).
    There's a dimple on the crank-pulley but nothing on the timing chain cover.
    There don't appear to be any spotwelds on the cover so it's not as if it's been broken off, it looks like they were never there.
    This is my 5th R12 and I've never seen one without a timing mark before.

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    So how does one set the timing on these, just by the dwell angle, or do it by ear, or adjust the timing until it sounds 'sweet'?
    I have 5 or 6 different R12 workshop manuals (Including the Renault R1170 manual) but all talk about the timing being 5 degrees (I think) below TDC. Hard to do if there isn't a timing mark.

    Cheers
    Ren
    "I cannot help but notice that there is no problem between us that cannot be solved by your departure. Mark Twain"

  2. #2
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    Guys.

    There are no timing marks on my R12 motor (type 842-01 1251cc).
    There's a dimple on the crank-pulley but nothing on the timing chain cover.
    There don't appear to be any spotwelds on the cover so it's not as if it's been broken off, it looks like they were never there.
    This is my 5th R12 and I've never seen one without a timing mark before.

    So how does one set the timing on these, just by the dwell angle, or do it by ear, or adjust the timing until it sounds 'sweet'?
    I have 5 or 6 different R12 workshop manuals (Including the Renault R1170 manual) but all talk about the timing being 5 degrees (I think) below TDC. Hard to do if there isn't a timing mark.

    Cheers
    Ren
    The timing marks are on the bell housing. There is a little cut out to look into to see the timing mark on the fly wheel. The deg marks are on the side of the cut out.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Otherwise, you could set it at TDC and mark your own marks using the dimple (if appropriate location) and a white tyre pen on the timing cover.
    This is what I have on my R10 with 1397 and it has worked for 10+yrs. The only hassle for me is that the TDC mark is only visible from under the car.
    KB


  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    I've never had a 12 but the R5 and 16TS are the same being on the bell housing. What bothers me (if I understand it right) is the fact that you have to set the timing 5deg after TDC. Maybe they mean BTDC (before) and not below?

    It is safe to start at 8-10 deg BTDC and work from there.

    Regards.Frans.
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts driven's Avatar
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    Some distributor curves were set at ATDC.

    Check your distributor designation - numbers for correct value

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by driven View Post
    Some distributor curves were set at ATDC.

    Check your distributor designation - numbers for correct value
    I'm pretty sure one of my R12 manuals talks about 0 or very low degrees BTDC timing also. I remember thinking it was low as I'm used to cars with 10-15 deg BTDC.
    KB


  7. #7
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Thanks guys,

    I must be getting old or there's been too long a gap between R12's I've owned.
    I remembered about a hour after I posted that the timing marks are on the flywheel.
    I shall go away into a corner and hang my head in shame.

    Cheers
    Ren
    "I cannot help but notice that there is no problem between us that cannot be solved by your departure. Mark Twain"

  8. #8
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    No. Go into your garage and set the bloody timing!
    Daily Drivers: R10, R12, R17T(?) Decouvrable

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    R8 (1.4 motor, 4 shock rear end), Dauphine, Pugeot 404

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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    The timing marks are on the bell housing. There is a little cut out to look into to see the timing mark on the fly wheel. The deg marks are on the side of the cut out.
    So I'm still confused With a fancy gun (measures rpm) I found a shady spot firing into the window on the top of the bell housing, and.. what should I be seeing? *ducks*

    I'm used to bits of white, or chunks of metal missing, but it was a bit difficult to distinguish where the mark was, or wasn't :S I'm further assuming 12 o'clock is TDC, are there degree reference marks cut out on the face of the flywheel one can measure against? There are no reference marks viable on or around the cut out in the bell housing I could distinguish...

    #fails.

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
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    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    So I'm still confused With a fancy gun (measures rpm) I found a shady spot firing into the window on the top of the bell housing, and.. what should I be seeing? *ducks*

    I'm used to bits of white, or chunks of metal missing, but it was a bit difficult to distinguish where the mark was, or wasn't :S I'm further assuming 12 o'clock is TDC, are there degree reference marks cut out on the face of the flywheel one can measure against? There are no reference marks viable on or around the cut out in the bell housing I could distinguish...

    #fails.
    There is a cut out in the flywheel which is easy to see, I just use tipex or white paint to high light it.

    Which spark plug lead did you attach your timing light to? #1 cylinder on a Renault is at the flywheel end, not at the radiator end which gets a few people.

    Also the method I use to find TDC on the sierra engine is to remove the spark plug from #1 cylinder (the one closest the flywheel) turn the engine over in a clockwise direction looking from the front of the car using a 19mm ring spanner on the crankshaft pulley and put my finger over the spark plug hole until you feel that cylinder come up on compression and then look in the window to do the last few degrees of adjustment.

    From memory the largest mark is TDC, sometimes they have numbers cast into the bell housing.

    This link explains it ok.
    | Repair Guides | Ignition Timing | Timing | AutoZone.com
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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    1973 Alpine A110

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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    2 things;

    1) great advice re spark plug out and fine tuning,
    2) and no I hooked it up to cylinder 4, radiator end

    Thank you Col!

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    So I'm still confused With a fancy gun (measures rpm) I found a shady spot firing into the window on the top of the bell housing, and.. what should I be seeing? *ducks*

    I'm used to bits of white, or chunks of metal missing, but it was a bit difficult to distinguish where the mark was, or wasn't :S I'm further assuming 12 o'clock is TDC, are there degree reference marks cut out on the face of the flywheel one can measure against? There are no reference marks viable on or around the cut out in the bell housing I could distinguish...

    #fails.
    Being an early car, it may not have the marks at that end, the marks being on the crank pulley and the pointer on the timing cover. (See first pic)

    The mark at the flywheel end being a chunk out of the flywheel which lines up with the marks on the bellhousing. Turn the motor over until the rotor arm points to No.1 and then see if the cut on the flywheel is visible, then mark the flywheel with paint - the dark chunk then being more visible. (See second pic)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R12 Timing-dsc08912.jpg   R12 Timing-dsc08913.jpg  
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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Vacuum gauge. Oh no not this again!
    Tap into the manifold or base of carb. Obtain highest reading on gauge,, usually 20. Then turn the distributor back around 18.
    Timing will be as near as.

  14. #14
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest View Post
    Vacuum gauge. Oh no not this again!
    Tap into the manifold or base of carb. Obtain highest reading on gauge,, usually 20. Then turn the distributor back around 18.
    Timing will be as near as.
    Yes this is one way of doing it.

    Another way is to drive the car in top gear at about 60 Km/h keep advancing till engine pings and then retard to last point it did not.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Timing can be set using no.1 or no.4 it won't make a difference. Maybe the timing is so far out that the mark has disappeared behind the bell housing. Remember that seeing from the flywheel end the rotation is CCW.

    Frans,
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Well it sounds like I was looking in the wrong place for the mark. As Simon indicated it is actually on the front pulley, (mine is an early one)

    And 1 or 4, wont make a difference? Firing order is 1342, perhaps I don't understand how a timing gun works :S

    And it's running really well, I'm just giving it a once over before I drive it 865km's

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Yes 1 or 4 will give you the same reading. It has to because the timing mark is at the same spot when 1 fires and a full rotation later no 4 will fire. When you have completed your timing on 1 do a test and put the timing light on 4 and see the results.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    2 rotations of crank, 1 rotation of cam, 4 stroke cycle.

    Ah, I understand.

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    Guys.

    There are no timing marks on my R12 motor (type 842-01 1251cc).
    There's a dimple on the crank-pulley but nothing on the timing chain cover.
    There don't appear to be any spotwelds on the cover so it's not as if it's been broken off, it looks like they were never there.
    This is my 5th R12 and I've never seen one without a timing mark before.

    So how does one set the timing on these, just by the dwell angle, or do it by ear, or adjust the timing until it sounds 'sweet'?
    I have 5 or 6 different R12 workshop manuals (Including the Renault R1170 manual) but all talk about the timing being 5 degrees (I think) below TDC. Hard to do if there isn't a timing mark.

    Cheers
    Ren

    Just wanted to remind you dwell is not going to say anything about the timing of the spark.

    Timing issues have been well and truly covered.

    Remember to disconnect the vacuum tube to dizzy and plug the intake end.
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