Side Draught Weber In R10
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    Fellow Frogger! R10S FAN's Avatar
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    Default Side Draught Weber In R10

    Does anyone have a pic they can post of their single side draught carby and extractor setup on their Sierra engine?
    I have a 42 DCOE on a Lynx crossover manifold and a set of unknown brand extractors but they hit and wont fit together.

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    I found a few pics however I don't have a good side view of the headers without the carby. The lugs that mount the carby to the head also assist the location of the headers so its a little difficult to correctly position the headers without the carb in place during the process.

    Side Draught Weber In R10-tri22ed.jpg Side Draught Weber In R10-tri33ea.jpg Side Draught Weber In R10-triffc5.jpg Side Draught Weber In R10-tri4ab.jpg

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    You can also use std R12 headers. Dave Collier reckons they produce just as much power as aftermarket extractors with less noise. To do that you just take the hot air intake off and fashion a plate to bolt up which takes the std R10 spring and lever arrangement.

    I've also added some pics of a set of Sonics so you can compare to yours. As far as I know, they work with the lynx cross over manifold

    Just for clarity - the manifold pictured in use is the non-cross over one that French Car Care in Brisbane used to sell, but I also have a lynx which has been used as well (currently in DBR's R10). Both work with the Std R12 unit. I know Lynx work with Sonics, I haven't tried the non pulse one with Sonics though. Perhaps someone in QLD has? :
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Side Draught Weber In R10-detail.jpg   Side Draught Weber In R10-carb-lever.jpg   Side Draught Weber In R10-dscn1304.jpg   Side Draught Weber In R10-dscn1615.jpg   Side Draught Weber In R10-dscn1614.jpg   Side Draught Weber In R10-kbr10engine.jpg  

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    KB


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    Using the R12 exhaust manifold is easy enough if you have an R12 motor in your car. If you have an original R10 motor, then the manifold will clash with the generator. To overcome this you will have to move the gen./alternator to the higher position on the right hand side, which will require mounting brackets and R12 water pump.

    Henry
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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    True Henry. The R10 heads also don't have the holes for the alternator mounting though they have the blanks that could be drilled and taped I guess.
    In his restoration thread, Anthony talked about using a warm 1289 so it was assumed that would be his engine. But given he has a 10S (which would have an alternator in the generator location presumably), it does serve as a cautionary warning to him, and others to be aware of this.

    Good point.
    KB


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    Fellow Frogger! R10S FAN's Avatar
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    Yes it will be a 1289 which i'm currently piecing together, and at this stage the engine will go in my white '68 r10 which I will use to re-shell the Sunburst Brown 10S i also have which has rust beyond my abilities to repair both physically and financially!

    KB i will post a couple of pics tonight of my extractors, I have a set of Sonics ( which are usable but in average condition ) and a set of unknown brand extractors that are in great condition but I can't use with my side draught. If i use these i'll have to use the 10S down draught. I known the owner of a well known exhaust shop here in Adelaide so i might see how much it would cost to get some Sonic type extractors made up - maybe a few sets if some other Froggers might be interested!

    Cheers

    Anthony
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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Try the sonics first before getting them remade, but I'm pretty sure they will work.
    KB


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    These are the extractors i have. Can anyone identify the brand in the bottom picture? Might just put exhaust heat wrap around the Sonics that way i can use the side draught.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Side Draught Weber In R10-1451906661725.jpg   Side Draught Weber In R10-1451906623451.jpg  
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    Mine is a 1.4 with 40DCOE & Lynx mated to a custom crafted 4:2:1 SS exhaust manifold. Given that last element, of course it fitted. Main hazard was getting the head mounting flanges of similar thicknesses to accommodate shared stud fixings.

    One thing that I advocate is a decent cold air intake &, to that end, I had the relevant inner wing "cut & shut" to make room for a substantial cold air box feeding through a largish K&N panel filter from a hole cut in the radiator panel. Cold air box is body mounted so Weber intake tubes poke through a flexible rubber panel to accommodate engine rock.

    cheers! Peter

    Side Draught Weber In R10-img_1721.jpgSide Draught Weber In R10-p1030186.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    Mine is a 1.4 with 40DCOE & Lynx mated to a custom crafted 4:2:1 SS exhaust manifold. Given that last element, of course it fitted. Main hazard was getting the head mounting flanges of similar thicknesses to accommodate shared stud fixings.

    One thing that I advocate is a decent cold air intake &, to that end, I had the relevant inner wing "cut & shut" to make room for a substantial cold air box feeding through a largish K&N panel filter from a hole cut in the radiator panel. Cold air box is body mounted so Weber intake tubes poke through a flexible rubber panel to accommodate engine rock.

    cheers! Peter

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Amazing the number of people that go to the trouble of putting a good inlet manifold and expensive side draft carby on and just forget about the cold/fresh air intake. It is so important for a cooler denser air mixture to get into those cylinders. Great to see your modification incorporating the cold air box. Just a lot of work, but it's worth it.
    Cheers Peter, from Phil

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    The air available under the rear grill intake is much cooler and far cleaner than the dirty hot air inside the wheel arch. The body shell does not have to be cut, only the radiator panel. The inlet duct from the radiator panel to the carby also provides a ram air effect.

    The locating method uses tubber O rings as fasteners on the outer air box to allow for engine mount movement.

    Relatively cheap horsepower gain and the engine runs cooler. I found the gauge on the Alconi stayed under 80C on the recent 38-42 C days before Christmas.

    I uploaded some pics and detail of the fabrication process in my Alconi project thread.

    Side Draught Weber In R10-tri11d.jpg
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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    If your Sonics are already marginal, wrapping them may accelerate the deterioration.
    Anecdotally, I've heard wrapping exhausts can make them rust out faster.

    What exactly is causing the extractors to not fit - is it a flange thickness issue as 4cvg mentions, or the manifold sitting on one of the primary tubes? maybe a small dent with a hammer or a slight tweak with an oxy by an exhaust shop might solve your problems - ie can the existing better extractors be fettled to make them fit?

    Does anyone have a non-cross over manifold ex French Car Care in their garage Anthony could try?
    KB


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    Very neat Bustamif.
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    If your Sonics are already marginal, wrapping them may accelerate the deterioration.
    Anecdotally, I've heard wrapping exhausts can make them rust out faster.

    What exactly is causing the extractors to not fit - is it a flange thickness issue as 4cvg mentions, or the manifold sitting on one of the primary tubes? maybe a small dent with a hammer or a slight tweak with an oxy by an exhaust shop might solve your problems - ie can the existing better extractors be fettled to make them fit?

    Does anyone have a non-cross over manifold ex French Car Care in their garage Anthony could try?
    The better extractors hit the bottom flanges of the side draught (a bit too horizontal) where the Sonics are angled down a bit more and clear no problems. I was only thinking about heat wrapping the extractors for cosmetic reasons KB, not worried about further deterioration they're already pretty average. I might see if i can grind a bit off the bottom of the flanges and / or oxy heat a small indentation on the top of the better extractors.
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    1968 Renault 10 (Modified 1.4L Alpine White)

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Flanges of the weber, or flanges of the inlet manifold?
    I would definitely modify the extractors or inlet manifold in preference to the weber unless it is only a fine grind necessary to give clearance.

    It wouldn't be the first set of extractors to have an intentional dent or two!
    KB


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    Bustamif, to make your good work better, you need to replace the missing rubber bung over the radiator filler, to prevent hot air rising out there and getting sucked into air filter.

    Henry
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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    R10S FAN,
    Do you have access to a welder? Can't you cut a wedge with a hacksaw in the bottom of the primaries and bolt them up to the head and then with a little force bend them down the amount that you need? That would be an easy and permanent mod and you can use your preferred extractor.

    I can assure you that the intake air in the grill is a good place as per Bustamif. I have a very low pressure gauge that can Pascals and 1/10 of a Pascal. I bought plastic tubing at the pet shop (aquarium tubing) and cut 4 lengths long enough to reach from engine compartment to passenger seat. Then I fastened the ends in 4 different places in the engine bay and numbered them at both ends. I took my son-in-law for the ride and at a steady 100 km/h the tube at the grill read the highest pressure. That is why I made the race car like that and that is why the stock G is like that as well. The Sorcerer was right all the time.

    Below is the race car setup. The funnel rising up to the grill can pivot to compensate for the engine movement. These pics were during building, in the mean time I have put a sealing rubber in where it touches the grill. Feel free to copy it if you want, it is an easy mod.









    Regards,Frans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubyalpine View Post
    Bustamif, to make your good work better, you need to replace the missing rubber bung over the radiator filler, to prevent hot air rising out there and getting sucked into air filter.

    Henry
    Shit, I never thought about that! I will have to close the rest of the grill. Thanks Henry.

    Frans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubyalpine View Post
    Bustamif, to make your good work better, you need to replace the missing rubber bung over the radiator filler, to prevent hot air rising out there and getting sucked into air filter.

    Henry
    Well spotted Henry. The rubber seals also stop the fan from dragging hot air from the engine bay and blowing that hot air through the radiator.

    I have updated the pics and you will also note the additional rubber seal on the engine lid - to be sure to be sure.

    (I like Frans race setup in Ally)

    Side Draught Weber In R10-tri2da4.jpg Side Draught Weber In R10-tri95c.jpg Side Draught Weber In R10-tridabd.jpg



    Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rubyalpine View Post
    Bustamif, to make your good work better, you need to replace the missing rubber bung over the radiator filler, to prevent hot air rising out there and getting sucked into air filter.

    Henry
    If all was correct there should also be a seal along the top of the fire wall. Doesn't take away from the good work though.

    Should a looked at the later pics before putting pen to paper. It's been done. Tried to delete this post but it wouldn't go.
    Last edited by Sunroof; 5th January 2016 at 01:24 PM.

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    Fellow Frogger! R10S FAN's Avatar
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    I think a bit of heat and a bit of a grind and it should fit!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Side Draught Weber In R10-1451979927821.jpg   Side Draught Weber In R10-1451979957597.jpg   Side Draught Weber In R10-1451979978167.jpg  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustamif View Post
    The air available under the rear grill intake is much cooler and far cleaner than the dirty hot air inside the wheel arch. The body shell does not have to be cut, only the radiator panel. The inlet duct from the radiator panel to the carby also provides a ram air effect.

    The locating method uses tubber O rings as fasteners on the outer air box to allow for engine mount movement.

    Relatively cheap horsepower gain and the engine runs cooler. I found the gauge on the Alconi stayed under 80C on the recent 38-42 C days before Christmas.

    I uploaded some pics and detail of the fabrication process in my Alconi project thread.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	TRI11D.jpg 
Views:	404 
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    Lovely neat job, a real credit to you. And what a difference it makes I'll bet.

    Cheers
    Phil

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    Anthony,
    I can see now what you mean. It wouldn't hurt to knock the edge off that manifold flange. It looks like it has some meat there. Just be careful not to go too close to the stud. You then may not need to dent the manifold, but perhaps keep that up your sleeve. Although as the manifold goes further in, it may still foul?

    Is it only the one point of contact or is it mirrored on the other side?
    KB


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    Quote Originally Posted by R10S FAN View Post
    I think a bit of heat and a bit of a grind and it should fit!

    Your headers look far better than the pipes I started with. The linkage looks good too however there will be a fair bit of heat near the headers which could cause some warping and dry the bottom joint. Apart from wrapping the pipes and heat shielding, you may consider ceramic coating the pipes which is not too expensive these days and will protect the pipes more than just wrapping. It minimises heat energy escaping into the engine bay and will give a little horsepower gain however they can look a bit too shiny and bright. More like a custom rod rather than a 10S.

    Shorter ram tubes/air horns will help the airflow even without an air box. They run a little too close to the inner guard on a 10 and I believe short ones are more efficient on a 10 with your set up.

    I spent some time over Christmas dialling the Alconi in with timing and mixture settings. It is now a great road car, really crisp, runs cool and feels very close to the lightweight R8G 1650 (up to 80kph).

    I therefore decided to work harder on the R8G over the last few weeks. I moved the aluminium radiator to the front to get better high speed air flow. It was getting too hot on extended runs at over 100kph which made it really hard to tune compared to the R10 Alconi.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustamif View Post

    Shorter ram tubes/air horns will help the airflow even without an air box. They run a little too close to the inner guard on a 10 and I believe short ones are more efficient on a 10 with your set up.
    Like these stub stacks?
    Sadly my fibreglassing skills are non-existent so no airbox for me.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Side Draught Weber In R10-dscn1687.jpg  
    KB


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