R10 gearbox, 16 internals
  • Help
Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,425

    Default R10 gearbox, 16 internals

    I have a gearbox out of one of my R8's that supposedly has "R16 internals"
    What I want to know is typically what parts are from an R16, and what are std 8/10.

    Advertisement


    I believe the diff, spider gears etc are 16, but my concern is buying parts for the refurb. What are things like the synchros likely to be from?

    Where's the best place to get bearings, synchro rings etc etc

    Anything else I need to know?
    KB


  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    601

    Default

    Bearings are easy enough, the usual suppliers will have them. The R16 manual lists some strange French number for one of them, my donor box had a different one, French again. There is an equivalent for it. I would not touch the bearings on the secondary shafts if you can avoid it.

    If it has R16 internals then it's pretty much everything other then the input shaft and the selector shafts.

    It should have larger splines on the diff needing modified u joints. It should have the diff spaced out as the R16 one is 11mm wider. The casing should have also been clearanced as the crown wheel is larger.

    I haven't put mine back together yet, so if you find info on the syncros I'd be interested.

    I

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Posts
    1,777

    Default

    8&10,
    If the conversion was done properly, the entire inside of the box is 16TS ??????

    Ray
    Ray geckoeng

    Think Old, But Run Modern !!

  4. #4
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    11,305

    Default

    Lucky man, if it is correct! I think you'd expect to see a external spacer ring on one side between the trunnion carrier/u-joint housing and the alloy gearbox housing if it is 16 internally, as the crownwheel and carrier is a wider unit and offset further sideways with respect to the pinion. Something like that. Colliers do/did that sort of conversion I thought and Dauphproto. Alan Moore's "NOT 750" has one too I seem to remember, so he'd know.

    Be interested to hear more.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,425

    Default

    Yes, I believe it has the spacer ring.
    The conversion was actually done by colliers. I think Bruce himself did it. The gearbox was in a yellow R8 that he prepared as a bash car for a customer. When they were done with it after doing a handful of bashes, they gave it back to Colliers who stripped it and disposed of the body - it was quite rusty by this stage. The box found its' way into a red R8 belonging to another customer, then ultimately to me when I bought the car off Jim Coleborne about 6 years ago or so ago.

    Yes, I could ask David Collier of course but I was trying to suss it out through here first.

    KB
    KB


  6. #6
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Ipswich, Queensland.
    Posts
    1,963

    Default

    The whole 16 innards would be fitted to your R10 housing. I guess you could use the 16 crown wheel and pinion, with the R10 gears, but why would you when the whole R16 shafts and gears fit straight in, with only the diff being too wide, and the output sunwheels having a greater diameter.

    In the bearings, the pinion bearing is the one that gets most worn, and of course takes the most effort to change.
    '56 Renault 4CV (16TS Power)
    '62 Renault Dauphine Gordini
    '82 Renault Fuego GTX
    '89 Renault Alpine GTA V6 Turbo
    '02 and '03 Renault Clios 1.4L
    '13 Renault Megane RS265 Trophee+

  7. #7
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    11,305

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    Yes, I believe it has the spacer ring.
    The conversion was actually done by colliers. I think Bruce himself did it. The gearbox was in a yellow R8 that he prepared as a bash car for a customer. When they were done with it after doing a handful of bashes, they gave it back to Colliers who stripped it and disposed of the body - it was quite rusty by this stage. The box found its' way into a red R8 belonging to another customer, then ultimately to me when I bought the car off Jim Coleborne about 6 years ago or so ago.

    Yes, I could ask David Collier of course but I was trying to suss it out through here first.

    KB
    Lucky bugger. Can I have first refusal please?
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Traralgon,Victoria
    Posts
    209

    Default

    Rob Sealy did my box and I supplied the 16TS internals thanks to Ray(Geokoeng). The conversion bits i.e spacer,gaskets e.t.c and big uni's came from Steve Swan.The only part Rob rejected was the pinion bearing which I sourced from Mecaparts.
    Brian

  9. #9
    Ove
    Ove is offline
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    69

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    I have a gearbox out of one of my R8's that supposedly has "R16 internals.
    ...., but my concern is buying parts for the refurb. What are things like the synchros likely to be from?"
    Things are not so easy as there were some evolutions at the R16 336 gearboxes. The 'R16 internals' might use the early synchron rings like the R8 for 1st and 2nd gear or newer ones with a different angle (6į 40' or 9į). You either have to check their design or count the cogs of the pinion to analyze the 'R16 internals' in your gearbox.

    Ove
    Last edited by Ove; 13th December 2015 at 04:17 PM.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,425

    Default

    So the good news are that the synchros and bearings all seem OK so will not be changed.
    There is a question mark over the uni joints however, or at least the races in them.

    Someone above mentioned that they are modified regarding the splines etc.

    But if I had to replace the actual uni joints themselves, would they be R10 or R16?
    And given Steve has pulled up stumps, where best to source from?

    KB
    KB


  11. #11
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Posts
    1,777

    Default

    KB,
    For all of Steve Swans information from his sight, go to turborenault.co.uk into the Technical section and go to 8 Gordini Workshop. He tells you the size of the units, and then you phone your local Drivelines or Hardy Spicer agents and give them the size and they will tell you what matches. I use an Alfa model from their books for my conversions. Have not had to do rebuilds yet. It would be good to measure yours as well, diam of bearing cup and distance face to face on outside of cups.

    Ray
    Ray geckoeng

    Think Old, But Run Modern !!

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Boonah Qld
    Posts
    2,637

    Default

    You could try a farm machinery supplier. I have been told that there is a very wide range of uni crosses available. If the splines are gone then they probably couldn't help you.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,425

    Default

    Mmm. Only one uni joint needs replacing. I can see that one side of the yoke has been machined to suit the R16 outputs, the other is std r8/10 that fits the axle shafts. The uni joints seem to be held in with a metal disc spot-welded in three places each rather than a circlip.

    I may be best seeing Dave Collier and get him to replace the U/J - may be less mucking about in the long run.
    KB


  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    1,557

    Default

    Then it will be easy to grind the spot welds off with a rotary file, replace the u-joints and spot weld them again. The spot welds are there purely because it is a pain to clamp the one half of the u-joint in a 4-jaw chuck and center it up in the lathe and cut a cir-clip groove.

    Frans
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,425

    Default

    I dropped the UJ assembly off this morning for Dave to change the UJ.
    Apparently it is some kind of GM, maybe early torana so should be easy to get.

    With the shed packed up and in storage, it's not worth my while trying to tinker with it at present.
    KB


  16. #16
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    11,305

    Default

    Do you really want it?
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,425

    Default

    Can you pick it up by the end of the weekend John?
    Yes, I think I want it but thanks for the offer.
    KB


  18. #18
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    11,305

    Default

    I could fly over tonight.....

    Ah well, if I can ever help you out....
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •