Is this Scenic transmission swap even possible?
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Thread: Is this Scenic transmission swap even possible?

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    Default Is this Scenic transmission swap even possible?

    Three months ago I bought my first Scenic. I had a thread on here asking about changing the timing belt (and was greatly helped, thank you). It took me three days, but I changed the belt and we absolutely loved our Scenic. I say "loved" because three weeks ago it was written off by a garbage truck hitting it in the back (our Scenic was parked). Very sad.

    So today we spent 11 hours travelling to, and driving around, Sydney (we're from Newcastle) looking at the Scenics I had short listed from Gumtree/Carsales/etc. We bought one. It has a few things to fix - oil leak, needs a muffler, no power steering fluid, a few dings, AND it needs a new timing belt (I know, what was I thinking??), but we thought it would polish up OK.
    Well, one kilometre into the freeway home there is an uphill. I'm a very sedate driver, but half way up the hill the three speed auto transmission kicked down from 3rd to 2nd quite violently, the "auto" light illuminated on the dash, and the car never changed into 3rd again for the next two hours (and still hasn't). Needless to say it was quite a high revving, high fuel consumption and very low-spirited trip home.

    So finally, to my question (thanks for your patience):
    I still have my 2001 Scenic sitting out the front. I was keeping it until I bought another Scenic so I could swap over the best parts like my leather seats, alloy wheels, new timing belt, etc. That Scenic is a manual. Is it possible for me to swap the manual transmission into the "new" Scenic, which is a 2003 auto?

    (I know just about anything's "possible", but I mean within reason for a guy who took three days to change a timing belt.)

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Have you got the rubbish truck's number?

    It sounds like the usual solenoid fault. Can be a DIY job for a couple of hundred.

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    That's encouraging, thanks - I have been thinking about, and Googling, what's involved in swapping, and I'm very quickly losing motivation for that idea.
    I guess I'll start Googling solenoid problems.

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    And yes, the truck's insurance company is supposedly paying us (although not enough to get a Scenic as nice as ours was).

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    Hi,
    Not a good outcome
    My suggestion is that it is possible to do but ! Do you want the work or need the aggravation ? You have both cars together so that is a good start. There are some small differences that you will come across that you do not expect. EG speedo cable is different on the ends Drive shafts different !
    I would do the engine and gearbox together if the other is good. Just a bit less hassel probably and solves the timing belt problem. Need to check the specs are the same !
    Cheers jaahn

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    Thanks jaahn. No I neither want the work nor the aggravation. The more I think about it, the less appealing it is. I don't even have a garage in which to do it.
    It would be great solve the timing belt problem by swapping the whole engine, but it's too much for me.

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    IWS
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    Quote Originally Posted by goog64 View Post
    Thanks jaahn. No I neither want the work nor the aggravation. The more I think about it, the less appealing it is. I don't even have a garage in which to do it.
    It would be great solve the timing belt problem by swapping the whole engine, but it's too much for me.
    And so your best option may be Addo's suggestion above - replacing a solenoid. Yes?

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    Yes, I hope so.
    I just have to find out what a solenoid looks like, what it does, and if there's more than one, how to find a bad one.
    Time for me to learn how an auto transmission works.

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    Default If the AL4 is the same as the AD4

    then, that is what a solenoid body looks like:Is this Scenic transmission swap even possible?-p1000502.jpgIs this Scenic transmission swap even possible?-p1000513-1-.jpg
    The first is an open valve body and in the second it's the bit in the background. The solenoids are just part of it (not visible on photos) attached by screws.
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    112_pdfsam_Renault 3307A.pdf113_pdfsam_Renault 3307A.pdf
    The attachments show the hydraulic control unit where the solenoids are fitted.
    It's behind the front plate of the gearbox.
    Oh, and in theory the gearbox computer has to be updated when the solenoids are replaced or they'll fail again pretty quickly (within a few months).

    To swap, the engines in the manual and automatic Scenic are slightly different so you'd have to swap the engine and gearbox as a complete unit.
    Given that you just changed the timing belt on your old car it probably would be a good idea anyway.
    You'd have to change the engine management computer as well.
    Changing all the ancillary bits like the pedal box gear shift etc. is messy but can be done but it might be better to just buy a manual Scenic in the first place.

    Cheers
    Ren.
    Last edited by REN TIN TIN; 16th October 2015 at 08:05 AM.
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    Wow, thanks guys! That is very helpful - it is NOT what I imagined at all.
    (+1 on buying a manual in the first place)

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    goog64, I have to say you deserve an award for steely determination.

    Suffering as much renault grief as you have and still preparing yourself for more makes you a unique person.


    Jo

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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    goog64, I have to say you deserve an award for steely determination.

    Suffering as much renault grief as you have and still preparing yourself for more makes you a unique person.


    Jo
    An award for determination yes.

    But unique, nuh, there are plenty of other Renault tragic's that have put themselves through this stuff time and time again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    An award for determination yes.

    But unique, nuh, there are plenty of other Renault tragic's that have put themselves through this stuff time and time again.
    Obviously, we Af'ers are unique also…. but i was meaning in the greater population of um…. 'normal people'.

    Jo

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    Yes probably right Jo-P, but aren't all Renault owners unique? ....I didn't think "normal people" bought Renaults.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    Yes probably right Jo-P, but aren't all Renault owners unique? ....I didn't think "normal people" bought Renaults.
    I think normal people buy renault.
    Only 'unique' (or poor) people buy old renaults.

    Jo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    Yes probably right Jo-P, but aren't all Renault owners unique? ....I didn't think "normal people" bought Renaults.
    Yeah, unique like everybody else
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    goog64, I have to say you deserve an award for steely determination.

    Suffering as much renault grief as you have and still preparing yourself for more makes you a unique person.


    Jo
    Ditto to this remark.
    Many others, including Renault tragics that frequent Aussiefrogs would give up.
    Good luck, you deserve some.

    Ren
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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    Ditto to this remark.
    Many others, including Renault tragics that frequent Aussiefrogs would give up.
    Good luck, you deserve some.

    Ren
    Thanks guys.
    I must say, after reading the internet for a day about Renault auto gear box problems, I am a bit dejected for two reasons:
    1. For every "answer" proposed, someone else proposes an alternative. I've read that it could be a problem with sensors, or cooling, or solenoids, or bands (whatever they are), or something else to do with pressure (can't recall the name of it now), and various other things.
    2. It sounds too difficult for me to diagnose and fix, and too expensive for me to get someone else to diagnose and fix.

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    2. It sounds too difficult for me to diagnose and fix, and too expensive for me to get someone else to diagnose and fix.
    The situation in a nutshell. That's why so many relatively low k's cars make their way into wreckers.

    And why so many owners have a gut-full of AL4 and DPO trans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    The situation in a nutshell. That's why so many relatively low k's cars make their way into wreckers.

    And why so many owners have a gut-full of AL4 and DPO trans.
    How can I tell whether mine is AL4 or DPO (2003 2 litre petrol Scenic)?

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    Default Hmmm..

    Quote Originally Posted by goog64 View Post
    Yes, I hope so.
    I just have to find out what a solenoid looks like, what it does, and if there's more than one, how to find a bad one.
    Time for me to learn how an auto transmission works.
    Hi,
    No need to learn how an auto works really. Just ask here some sensible questions and get sensible answers. Perhaps those who do not know the answers will desist NOW.

    The Rennos do not use an AL4 transmission but use their version which is a DPO. Same roots but different versions.
    The solonoids are a well known problem in all these transmissions. They were upgraded years ago to a newer version but that has not solved all problems, usual half baked French solution. However the solonoids are readily available from the auto specialists and from ebay too. Not a difficult proposition to change and with the necessary oil change to a cheaper better oil that may fix the problem for years to come. The problem as described sounds like it is that.
    Note that there are other solonoids in there that are different, but these two are exactly the same type and are the ones that usually fail normally !!! Only one really is the problem but you may as well replace both. Sooner rather than later before other things get worn out by the problems.
    Jaahn

    Here is a quick ebay search result. {Not necessarily the best or only ones ! }

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DPO-AL4-Pressure-Regulator-Lock-Up-Solenoid-for-Peugeot-Citroen-Renault-OEM-X2-/191543949341?hash=item2c98e8b81d:g:MHMAAOSwgQ9Vv0E E

    Same place sells boxes of six ! No problems here why do you ask
    Last edited by jaahn; 17th October 2015 at 01:25 PM.

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    Thank you Jaahn.
    I misunderstood JoBo's photos in post #9. That eBay ad looks more like I imagined a solenoid would look like.
    If you think this is the most likely cause of my issue, I will probably attempt the replacement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goog64 View Post
    Thank you Jaahn.
    I misunderstood JoBo's photos in post #9. That eBay ad looks more like I imagined a solenoid would look like.
    If you think this is the most likely cause of my issue, I will probably attempt the replacement.
    Hi John,
    Do this test ! Get the car out again and start it, warm it up for 10 minutes and then drive it around normally. It should be going OK. It may continue OK or if it is bad it will fault again when you put a bit of load on it, eg up a hill or so If it does this then it's most likely the solonoid. If it does not go OK at all then it may be something else or the clutches have already been damaged. Note also examine the transmission all around for oil leaks including the driveshaft seals. Real oil leaks not just traces.

    This solonoid is the main pressure regulator valve. All modern autos have a similar style. The computer is adjusting this continuously in response to all the sensors and loads. It is important as it provides the grip for the clutches etc. The pressure is adjusted higher and lower as the computer sees as necessary.

    The fault mode is this. It senses the solonoid is faulty and is not giving the pressure that the computer expects from its signals. It has feedback from a pressure sensor. So it goes into "limp home mode" which is full max pressure, which causes a serious clunk as it changes to 3rd which is a direct through mechanical drive with minimal hydraulic needs. Note it is a 4 speed auto and it stays in 3rd.

    There is some information on the work needed to do this change of valves on this forum and everwhere else too I could help again if you wish. Not to be done lightly if not confident by a person with out any experience IMHO.
    Jaahn

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    Perhaps those who do not know the answers will desist NOW.
    But... But... It's the internet! Where you'll find more knockers than at a wet T-shirt contest. (And for anyone who thinks we are bad here, read the comments on pretty much any BaT article...)

    Have a crack at the solenoids, this should sort it unless the previous owner has driven the car for a long time in its faulty state out of cussedness (some people do!). Note: I believe that unless someone has tinkered with the multifunction switch, you DO NOT adjust this when replacing solenoids. It will actually help by letting you know when the retaining spring finger (in one of the linked documents) is exactly positioned right.

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