2002 Scenic power steering pump about to fail? Renovate or detonate car?
  • Help
Results 1 to 17 of 17
Like Tree3Likes

Thread: 2002 Scenic power steering pump about to fail? Renovate or detonate car?

  1. #1
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    16

    Default 2002 Scenic power steering pump about to fail? Renovate or detonate car?

    My 2002, automatic, Dynamique Scenic, which I have had from new, has developed what sounds like noisy tappets, plus a whining noise that is coming not from the engine itself, but from close to where we think the power steering pump is located (driver's side, in front of alternator.) It became apparent yesterday; first thing we did was switch off the climate control to see if it might be a noisy compressor, which it wasn't.

    This 13 year old car has a number of expensive issues that I am struggling to come to terms with, in addition to this new one:
    Transmission "clunk" solenoid issue, which has been occurring intermittently for at least 7 years (Rex Gorell was unable to replicate issue and computer analysis showed nothing, so never repaired.)
    Hiss from under the brake pedal, brake booster issue, also long term ongoing, at least 8 years
    Front shocks and brakes all round (normal maintenance, I know)

    As mentioned by someone else recently, the Rex Gorell Renault has not been able to source the transmission "clunk" issue nor the brake booster hiss, wanting only to replace rather than attempt to trouble-shoot the issue, and the local euro repairer could not be bothered because it's such fiddly work.

    We're starting to wonder if it's viable to spend $4000+ to repair a car that, while still in fairly good condition, is aging and only worth $3k or so, maybe less. It's never been involved in a collision. I may have to do this repair, because losing power steering while driving is not my idea of fun.

    Advertisement


    Opinions greatly accepted.
    Last edited by Cecile; 14th October 2015 at 08:26 AM.

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,425

    Default

    Difficult decision, but realistically as a trade in or private sale its value is about 500-1000. As you say, fully repaired it is still less than 3000. I bailed out of a Laguna a few years back as the total cost I had spent in purchase and repair reached my tipping point, but it was still one of the nicest cars to drive that I have had.

    You could repair it and get another 5-10 yrs out of it, but I suspect it could be time to consider something else.
    KB


  3. #3
    COL
    COL is offline
    A110 COL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Van Diemen's Land
    Posts
    4,341

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cecile View Post
    My 2002, automatic, Dynamique Scenic, which I have had from new, has developed what sounds like noisy tappets, plus a whining noise that is coming not from the engine itself, but from close to where we think the power steering pump is located (driver's side, in front of alternator.) It became apparent yesterday; first thing we did was switch off the climate control to see if it might be a noisy compressor, which it wasn't.

    This 13 year old car has a number of expensive issues that I am struggling to come to terms with, in addition to this new one:
    Transmission "clunk" solenoid issue, which has been occurring intermittently for at least 7 years (Rex Gorell was unable to replicate issue and computer analysis showed nothing, so never repaired.)
    Hiss from under the brake pedal, brake booster issue, also long term ongoing, at least 8 years
    Front shocks and brakes all round (normal maintenance, I know)

    As mentioned by someone else recently, the Rex Gorell Renault has not been able to source the transmission "clunk" issue nor the brake booster hiss, wanting only to replace rather than attempt to trouble-shoot the issue, and the local euro repairer could not be bothered because it's such fiddly work.

    We're starting to wonder if it's viable to spend $4000+ to repair a car that, while still in fairly good condition, is aging and only worth $3k or so, maybe less. It's never been involved in a collision. I may have to do this repair, because losing power steering while driving is not my idea of fun.

    Opinions greatly accepted.
    AS I see it, if you can do the repairs yourself it will be worth while repairing as you will only need to pay for the parts you use. You will also need to find the time to do the work.

    If you are unable to do the work yourself or don't have the time or facilities and have to pay for labour and parts I think it would be uneconomical to keep vehicle. So maybe time to cut your losses and get what you can for it and move on into a newer car that you will get a number of years out of without have to spend to much on except for scheduled servicing.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    8,484

    Default

    I Agree with the the other comments here.

    Prety much, ignore it, and one way or another it will go away.

    I have a 2002 RX$ scenic, and that has been my policy since I bought it 2 or 3 years ago.

    Interestingly, the whine at start up, those tappets ( a mate thought it was a diesel) the angelic choir that starts waxing lyrically at 80km/h (possibly the prop shaft bearing) have not actualy got any worse nor do they worry me anymore.
    I'd probably be more concerned now if they stopped!!!

    This info probably wont do you any good, but my PAS was being a bit naughty, whining and occasionaly feeling like it wanted to lock up so I changed whatever fluid was in it for dextron 2, as per the spec.
    It has been well behaved ever since, apart from going through 2 pressure sensors that started leaking.
    Next one that goes (and jeperdizes my remaining dex11) wil either get welded up or have a ball bearing epoxied into its orifice.


    Jo

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Fordman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Perth/West Australia
    Posts
    1,537

    Default

    Having a similar model, I can't recall anyone else having a power steering pump failure on this forum (may be wrong), I have also had a pressure switch leaking, which I replaced easily with a genuine new unit, not too expensive. The switch is located in the pipe from the pump, right up front between engine and radiator, easy to get to. If this has leaked a fair amount of fluid the effect will be for the pump to start whirring noise due to low fluid level. No problem if fluid topped up, presume you have checked fluid level. Please excuse if this sounds so basic, but one never knows the knowledge of the person with a car problem.

    Given the apparent reliability of the pow/stg pump, if it is indeed cactus, I would be inclined to source second hand unit as I guess a new genuine pump would be quite expensive.

    Our Scenic has always had a loud whirring noise from alternator on start up, goes away after a couple of minutes. I consider this to be quite normal as the alternator has a heavy load at that time. Maybe if the battery is failing, the alternator might be working harder all the time, possible source of your noise? Just worth eliminating.

    Our car does not have noisy tappets, but as they are hydraulic I would suspect oil pressure/starvation/cleanliness, but as Jo says it won't immediately kill the engine. These engines have a surprisingly high viscosity oil requirement for a modern engine. I have always used Shell semi-synth 15W-50 which is exactly the Renault spec, current name of Shell product is Helix HX7 15W-50 High Mileage. Many hydraulic tappet noises have been cured with oil change.

    Re the trans clunk, ours had the intermittent clunk from new but as it did not record a computer fault, no dealer/repairer would be able to diagnose the problem. However, it is such a well-known problem that replacement of the delinquent solenoid is almost guaranteed to be the problem (not 100% as some have found out). At first ours had the clunk only every 6 months or so, after a few years it became more regular, say every 2 months, and at about 80000kms (9 years) began faulting in the computer, causing yellow trans light on dash and going into "limp home mode" - driveable, but only 3rd gear. Wife got used to pulling into side street, switching off engine for 10 seconds, restarting and car was fine for another couple of months. When this got to about twice a week earlier this year (11 years old and 100k kms now) she got a bit pee'd off about it, and as we want to keep this otherwise good car, I had the solenoid replaced by Renault dealer (mainly for warranty purposes) at cost approx $1000 incl diagnosis. 2 points here, firstly the solenoid fault cannot be diagnosed by the equipment until the fault gets bad enough to log a fault in the ECU which happens when the trans light comes on and limp home mode is activated. Secondly, if this happens, it can be reset by switching off the engine until you get sick of doing this, so is not a terminal car problem in your case. However, the severe clunk is not good for the driveline in my opinion (I used to think it would break a driveshaft sometimes), and there is probably a safety issue with the limp home mode being used regularly.

    So depending what sort of driver/mechanic you are, some of these things can be left to develop for some time, with respect for safety of course, and you could choose to just keep it until it dies and spending minimal amounts as items get too far gone. Ours is in very good condition, but worth very little to sell, but I feel we have amortised it over nearly 12 years now, and I could roll it over a cliff without caring about the value of it anymore, but I feel it has many more years left in it. My advantage is that I am a qualified mechanic and maintenance is basically a non-issue. In fact the dealer and I had a good laugh when I took it in for the trans solenoid earlier this year, he said their computer said it hadn't been in a dealer for 10 years and that was correct.

    However, if the amount to spend on your vehicle far exceeds the value of it (and the value to you may be higher than the monetary book value) then the earlier it is disposed of, the better. At the same time, spending $4k if the car is otherwise in good nick, is still cheaper than getting a new car, if you are attached to the car, as many Scenic owners are!

    2004 Scenic I 2.0 auto (Hers)
    2016 Ford Territory (His)
    2004 WRX (Sunday car)

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Geelong Australia
    Posts
    76

    Default

    As I live in Geelong as you may , I have a local friend who may have a spare Pump . As i am taking off for 2 weeks holiday from Friday , if you call 52218915 , I can put you in touch with him . David

  7. #7
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toolman View Post
    As I live in Geelong as you may , I have a local friend who may have a spare Pump . As i am taking off for 2 weeks holiday from Friday , if you call 52218915 , I can put you in touch with him . David
    Thanks you, and to everyone else for the informative posts. I'm not mechanical at all, but my husband has some experience. I'll get him to long in here and have a look. David, I am indeed in Geelong, and I will have Ted ring you later, I'll be at work.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Brisbane/Australia
    Posts
    2,205

    Default

    Replacement of the power steering pump isn't much of an issue. There are plenty of the JA Scenics being parted out so a second hand one is easy to get. You have all the usual suspect in Melbourne to choose from or Ebay.
    If you want new they are also available but of course they cost far more than a used one.
    Replacing the PAS pump is one of the (few) easier jobs on the Scenic.

    The 'noisy tappets' could be wear in the dephaser pulley which is not uncommon on the F4R.
    You could get the pulley replaced with the next cambelt change but the pulley could go on being noisy for years without actually failing.

    The clunk in the gearbox could be a problem with one or more solenoids as mentioned by others.
    Yes, it is expensive if you have to replace them as there's about 4 - 6 hours labour involved if you know what you're doing. Others might disagree but I wouldn't personally attempt to change the Solenoids myself. They're on the front of the gearbox so can be done without removing the gearbox from the car but like with all auto boxes you have to be spotless when working on the internals. In theory you're also supposed to download new software when you do work on the DP0 gearboxes. That could be Renault trying to scare away the DIY crowd or it might be true

    At the end of the day the repairs, even if you do them yourself will probably cost more than the car is worth but you might get another few years out of it.
    Trying to sell-on a car with know faults won't get you much money unless you find a mug and have the stones to lie to them about the condition of the vehicle.

    Cheers
    Ren
    "I cannot help but notice that there is no problem between us that cannot be solved by your departure. Mark Twain"

  9. #9
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Geelong Victoria Australia
    Posts
    13

    Default

    OK So first things first on Saturday I'll drain the Bosses oil and renew with the appropriate stuff but how do you drain the power steering fluid? level on that is good but it is dark and very possibly oxidised
    It may seem a basic question but my driver is an old Ford ute and easy to see stuff like this

  10. #10
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Romsey, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,904

    Default

    We sell a quite a few of those pumps so they are starting to fail. We can send you one.
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
    AIRPORT WEST
    VIC 3042


    frenchconnect@bigpond.com

    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  11. #11
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Geelong Victoria Australia
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    We sell a quite a few of those pumps so they are starting to fail. We can send you one.
    What's the cost David?
    We will of course do the oil change and stuff too

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Fordman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Perth/West Australia
    Posts
    1,537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
    OK So first things first on Saturday I'll drain the Bosses oil and renew with the appropriate stuff but how do you drain the power steering fluid? level on that is good but it is dark and very possibly oxidised
    It may seem a basic question but my driver is an old Ford ute and easy to see stuff like this
    I would be thinking along the lines of removing a return line to the reservoir/pump, diverting into a container, and running the engine for a few seconds, trying not to empty the reservoir. Top up reservoir and repeat until cleanish. Note correct fluid spec, there are a couple of different basic fluid types.

    Cheers.
    2004 Scenic I 2.0 auto (Hers)
    2016 Ford Territory (His)
    2004 WRX (Sunday car)

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    5,482

    Default

    Does the car have an electric psp? Usually, the ps bleeds itself. Fill, turn steering from lock to lock with engine running? At least that's the case with the MR2. As Fordmans says - make sure to use correct fluid particularly if its an e-pump.
    "The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge"
    Stephen Hawking

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Brisbane/Australia
    Posts
    2,205

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    Does the car have an electric psp? Usually, the ps bleeds itself. Fill, turn steering from lock to lock with engine running? At least that's the case with the MR2. As Fordmans says - make sure to use correct fluid particularly if its an e-pump.

    No, the PSP is run off the ancillary belt, it's next to the alternator above the air-con compressor.
    "I cannot help but notice that there is no problem between us that cannot be solved by your departure. Mark Twain"

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    8,484

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo View Post
    Does the car have an electric psp? Usually, the ps bleeds itself. Fill, turn steering from lock to lock with engine running? At least that's the case with the MR2. As Fordmans says - make sure to use correct fluid particularly if its an e-pump.
    OK, watching this with interest because my rx4's 'correct fluid' is dex11.

    Jo

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    5,482

    Default

    In most cases it is as far as i heard. Even the Toyota service department suggested it for the MR but the factory recommend one (@about $50 for 1/2 liter or a bit less :rolleyes) for specific one for their electric pump.
    Other guys on Toyota fora say that using non spec fluid means an early death of the pump.
    "The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge"
    Stephen Hawking

  17. #17
    Member Philip76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    71

    Default

    I had a horrible noise in that area that turned out to be a combination of the water pump and another pulley. All fixed for about $700. But then I had the dephaser go as well, so that was another $1000. It's a likeable car, but I've now replaced it and it's for sale...

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •