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Thread: My R12 POS Arrived!

  1. #1401
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Well here a sure fire way to ruin a perfectly functional exhaust. Everyone should drive a car without an exhaust like once maybe

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/W6GpCmKBDSv5ZmuM8

    I'm going to use the bends to make it exit nice and neatly near enough behind me maybe.

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    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  2. #1402
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Also new studs because Raaaawwr *flicks a curl of my fridge back over my ear*



    I was liberal with the Loctite as the thread in the manifold was, well smooth, but loose... I reckon it's going to be annoying to tighten everything up, hopefully the loctite will provide the initial resistance. I may go back and nut each side but we'll see.

    Mercifully, the old ones came out without so much of a fuss!

    Bowie 1, Reno 0.

    The loud boy pipe is ready,



    Don't worry don't worry. It's not going to stay like this. I will need to measure the runners and work out where the resonator needs to go. Quick math says it should be about ~3.5L in volume, and near enough where it was. Why cut it out then you ask? Well the muffler removed sound likes a Casaba once shook, I may be able to empty it and reuse it, we'll see.

    Also, since the water pump is leaking and the replacement is here, I think now is the time to send the cam off. We'll see how motivated I am after I have a closer look at what needs to be removed.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  3. #1403
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    You don't really need the middle muffler.
    The 'sport' versions of the 12 didn't have one, just the rear muffler.
    Doesn't appear to release any extra power but does give a nice exhaust note on overrun.

    Cheers
    RTT
    "I cannot help but notice that there is no problem between us that cannot be solved by your departure. Mark Twain"

  4. #1404
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Really? that goes against everything I've read about the importance of a resonator to provide a bit of back pressure and to cancel out some of the pulses in the exhaust wave. So the TS only had the larger rear muffler near the beam?

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  5. #1405
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Just reading that the camshaft in the these 810's sit directly without a bearing? Really? So if it's pitted and worn oh well? Just stick my fingers in my ears and go lalalalala?

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  6. #1406
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Just reading that the camshaft in the these 810's sit directly without a bearing? Really? So if it's pitted and worn oh well? Just stick my fingers in my ears and go lalalalala?
    A popular mod for hotting up these engines is to get the block line bored to enable installation of cam bearings, similar to the R8Gordini block. Colliers can help there if you’re interested. That way any pitting on the block won’t matter. The cam will depend on whether you get your cam reground, or find another to grind. I would suggest Colliers A2 grind which they subcontract out (to waggots I think). I have the A4 in my 1397. The dollars are starting to add up of course.

    There shouldn’t be too much pitting of course if your oil pressure and feed to there is ok?
    KB


  7. #1407
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Ah I was ready to send it back to Melbourne to Clive Cams, I'll go talk to Colliers again.

    Cheers,

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  8. #1408
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Geez Bowie.

    Next you're going to tell us you were surprised you need to take off the head to get the camshaft out.

    The block is cast iron, the camshaft is cast steel. Should be fine with no bearings. Clean the oil passages. I have never seen one of these engines with problems like that in the camshaft area.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  9. #1409
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Really? that goes against everything I've read about the importance of a resonator to provide a bit of back pressure and to cancel out some of the pulses in the exhaust wave. So the TS only had the larger rear muffler near the beam?

    The R12 GL didn't have the centre muffler, not sure about the R12TS.
    It's been a while since I had a 12TS and I don't recall how many mufflers were fitted.
    I'm not an exhaust expert but my understanding is that the manifold and primary pipe(s) provided the bulk of the back pressure.
    The tailpipe is just to remove the gasses quickly and quietly.
    The R12 manifold/exhaust in stock form isn't too bad from an efficiency perspective.
    "I cannot help but notice that there is no problem between us that cannot be solved by your departure. Mark Twain"

  10. #1410
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    You should close your eyes and pinch a bit off to get your head skimmed at the same time. VIP. Very Important Part. Imagine the savings of another headgasket when you decide to up the CR!!

    Frans.
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  11. #1411
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Ah yes Frans, whilst the head is off it will find a mill. Your compression calculator will be of use, I'll get the cam done (how much lift I end up with) then take everything off the head as I can.

    MMhahahaha

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  12. #1412
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    bahahahaha

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oWV...ature=youtu.be

    I mean, doesn't that sound great! yeah... I dare not make another noise for your entertainment as it approaches evening. Even my dog was barking at it.


    Thanks again Rod for the gasket, the smaller of the two fitted, the larger must be from something different?
    Renault Rod likes this.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  13. #1413
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    I’m after a driveshaft seal for my 12. Manual g box. Any idea where I can get one. Thanks

  14. #1414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schols View Post
    I’m after a driveshaft seal for my 12. Manual g box. Any idea where I can get one. Thanks
    Part number 7703 087 068, is a double lip seal with the dimensions of 36 x 54 x 11. It will fit ring-nut 'box 16s, and all of the 12/15/17 range.

    I'm thinking quoting the dimensions to a good bearing supplier will yield a couple of fairly inexpensive seals. Note though new seals will not cure all leaks given the ravages of time - and previous owners - on the other interacting components.
    COL, Sunroof and JohnW like this.
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  15. #1415
    1000+ Posts Shoji's Avatar
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    Bowie, There's a K4J over here for sale on Ebay
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Renault-...4AAOSw2QxcncI3
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

  16. #1416
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoji View Post
    Bowie, There's a K4J over here for sale on Ebay
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Renault-...4AAOSw2QxcncI3
    The K4J is a very tall motor as compared to the 810 or 847, you'd need one significant bonnet bulge to fit one of them into a 12.
    Even an 807 motor in a 12 needs a bulge to clear the carby unless you go to side-draught carbs.
    That's assuming you could mount the K4J in the first place. I don't believe they have fittings for side engine mounts so you'd have to fabricate a mount above the radiator. Not impossible but not easy either.
    "I cannot help but notice that there is no problem between us that cannot be solved by your departure. Mark Twain"

  17. #1417
    Tadpole
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    Thanks Simon

  18. #1418
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    The K4J is a very tall motor as compared to the 810 or 847, you'd need one significant bonnet bulge to fit one of them into a 12.
    Even an 807 motor in a 12 needs a bulge to clear the carby unless you go to side-draught carbs.
    That's assuming you could mount the K4J in the first place. I don't believe they have fittings for side engine mounts so you'd have to fabricate a mount above the radiator. Not impossible but not easy either.
    C.less has been all over this with his R8.

    We did some measurements earlier, once you account for the weber sitting on top it was pretty similar actually.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  19. #1419
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    But speaking of Reno 12's, Wagon doors!

    Are the rears the same as the sedans?

    And if not, does anyone want a good passenger rear door? :S

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  20. #1420
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    But speaking of Reno 12's, Wagon doors!

    Are the rears the same as the sedans?

    And if not, does anyone want a good passenger rear door? :S
    The bottom part of the doors are the same, its the top part that is different, the frame that goes around the window.
    Regards Col

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  21. #1421
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Well that solves that mystery.

    For Sale, 1 x new rear wagon passenger door.

    Like, new. like it came in a box like new.

    Has been painted nearly yellow, will need to finish the job / re paint.

    Now, anyone got a rear passenger sedan door that isn't totally rusted out? Or the window rail in a rusted door I can cut out and re/use?

    (Thank you Col)
    Last edited by bowie; 5th July 2019 at 09:30 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  22. #1422
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Forgive the SkyCam.

    Hot and short exhausts are simply hilarious

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/sqLNQBYpVEGKYHbr7

    I'll see some of you tomorrow
    Shoji likes this.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  23. #1423
    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    your youthful exuberance cuts me up Bow-man

  24. #1424
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Nice. It almost sounds like a two stroke.

    You really need a close ratio 'box. And/or a shorter diff.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  25. #1425
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    The NSWRRC where holding a club level supersprint on site today. This is interesting because we, the ARDC do not hold any "club" level events any-more. Why is that interesting? Well the rules relating to needing a roll cage are different. From Cams Schedule J;

    3.
    APPLICATION
    A safety cage structure complying with Schedule J is required as follows:

    3.2
    SPEED AND REGULARITY EVENTS:
    (a) Each 1st Category vehicle in a Speed or Regularity Event.
    (b) State Championship and above level
    Speed Event and Regularity Event, other than:
    (i) a vehicle of the 5th Category (unless otherwise specified in the Historic Technical
    Regulations); or
    (ii) a vehicle which is road registered.

    So cool! welcome the grey area where unregistered vehicles don't need a cage. I have one of them I thought to myself, so I set about to bring my POS in to check what else they wanted done..

    Being polite no doubt, they commented initially,

    "You have yourself here a very nice paddock basher."

    Long story short, I had incorrectly inferred from the Sup Regs for the event, that my vehicle need only compile with Category A & B. These are the basic regs that every vehicle (cough cough time attack cars are special cough cough) need to apply.

    The friendly Scrutineer from the RRC set about explaining how I got this all pared shaped as far as Cams is concerned.

    Lesson 1)
    A car needs a face! In that it needs to be "something". What? I need to belong to a "race category" in addition to compiling with schedule A/B. What this means is I need to choose between the following from the race specification of automobiles, and for the craft to comply with their regs initially.

    https://www.cams.com.au/regulations/manual/race

    A brief table for you here;

    Cat 1 = Open wheelers
    Cat 2 = Sports Cars
    Cat 3 = Touring Cars
    Cat 4 = Off Road cars
    Cat 5 = Historic Cars
    Cat 6 = Others... (bizarrely some TA2's and WTAC cars)

    Lesson 2)
    If it's not mentioned in the Cams reg's, that doesn't mean it's free or not controlled for, that means it off limits. The Cams regs in fact, is a document of allowances, rather then restrictions.

    Lesson 3)
    Officials change there mind from event to event. This seems highly dodge, but it was explained that ultimately the Stewards are absorbing the risk, if they agree xyz will be allowed, that is on them. We as competitors have signed our waiver putting us at hands to the stewards. Hence why I was able to enter an event at Awaba despite the vehicle not meeting anything. I suppose this goes a long way to the history of confusion and the tales of what is allowed and not.

    Lesson 4)
    Some officials will warrant mechanisms above what is required, and that's where the Sup Regs will detail. So, not uncommon to have to make changes from event to event in order to satisfy where you are / which club is hosting / what style of event.

    So what does all this mean for my POS? We'll I'm going to have to go either; get it rego'd (unlikely now it doesn't have windows) or put a cage it in and get it logged booked, after first, deciding what to build it towards. Currently, as we expected, it's closer a Cat 3 craft, and particularly, a Sports Sedan as I've fitting plastique windows. I was prepared for this, so it's not a total surprise, but just a further delay in moving on with it. Half expected, but I got excited after reading about the roll cage exception for club events.

    Which brings me to another point. How you could meet a race category, without it being rego'd without a cage is beyond me. So now I'm a bit lost as to what that section in Schedule J 3.2 is trying to say.

    Anyways, no club racing for me, and mandatory cams regs are dumb ho hum.

    But still thanks to the NSW RRC for being able to spend time with me today and talk to the matter.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

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