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Thread: My R12 POS Arrived!

  1. #1376
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Hmmm I don't like my chances of removing that old exhaust shield stud... I may just go get a longer spring and attach it to the inner wheel arch. For the moment I'll be careful.

    Swapping out a 57 prim idle jet for a 60, had me within 2 turns of the mixture screw, time for a squirt.

    It's pretty crap at slow speeds, ie. squirt, nothing... then revs. Suppose the accel pump is working at least On throttle it's yeah it's pretty good.

    Feels like the 32/32 until you hit ~3,500, then instead of just slowing its still pulling. I ran out of bravery on the back streets and returned home.

    I best now find me an 02 sensor and do this properly, but heck the change from the 32/32 to the 32/36 is, well not as dramatic as swapping out the old solex, but once the secondary barrel opens up it's pulling harder again. Noice.

    We have a track day, Thursday on the Druitt, that will give me enough WOT room to really lean on it and see if anything falls of. Fingers crossed for beating the 140km/h barrier

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    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  2. #1377
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Put a nut extender from Bunnings on that stud, Bowie.

    The 12 should be good for 160km/h on the Solex, Bowie. In half an hour or so of pedal to the metal. What you are trying is to cut down on that half hour.

    You can replace the link between barrels with geared sectors so they open at the same time. If you don't know what I am talking about, look up 38 DGAS.

    Or just go to a 38 DGAS. These should be plentiful and cheap off old Falcons and/or Holdens?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  3. #1378
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Perhaps the road just wasn't long enough in regards to 160km/h or that the 40yrs of earth had been catching up with the ol' girl

    I want to check spark plug colour at the track day. Sessions last about ~15mins, there should be about 8 sessions, I'll be able to get a fair idea if it's lean or not at WOT, and that's probably the most critical. I'll get it as close as I can with my bum dyno before hand, and over-jet it, in hopes to lean it out as the day progresses, well not to much at least.

    She is now idling within two twists of the mixture screw with "60" idle jets, which is what the manual for the TS 32/32 Weber suggests actually, I'll have a play with the main jets (currently at 127/140 actually which on first value is weird, but it appears to you were assuming a mix from the smaller 32/32 settings on this thing Schlitzaugen? Or was this was one destined for the BMW?) Anyway some quick reference points below;


    R12 32/32 (DIR)

    Chokes = 24 / 25
    Main Jet = 115 / 125
    Idle Jet = 60 / 60
    Emulsion Tube = F30 / F30
    Air Corrector = 200 / 200
    Jet Pump = 50
    Needle Valve = 150

    Outa-the-box 32/36 DGV
    Chokes = 26 / 27
    Main Jet = 140 / 135
    Idle Jet = 55 / 50
    Emulsion Tube = F50 / F6
    Air Correct = 165 / 160
    Jet Pump = 50
    Neddle Valve = 200

    Common 32/36's on popular Datsun A12's
    Chokes = 26 / 27
    Main Jet = 125 / 135
    Idle Jet = 60 / 50
    Emulsion Tube = F50 / F50
    Air Correct = 170 / 190
    Jet Pump = ~
    Neddle Valve = ~


    So yes, In lieu of a O2 Sensor, start with rich jets, smash it on the track, clean and check plugs each session.

    Yes I've seen those sync kits available, and had a quick look for a 38/38 a while back, they are still $~300, getting that cam sorted and head shaved will be a better investment I reckon.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  4. #1379
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Well in effort to check the stumbling from last night, I'm going to run with this (should be a but rich) then in effort to work backwards from.

    Main Jet = 130 / 140
    Idle Jet = 60 / 60
    Emulsion Tube = F66 / F66
    Air Correct = 150 / 175

    This may address the stumbling from idle circuit to the prim that I felt last night, if not I'll add more fuel then have a play with the secondary circuit.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  5. #1380
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Yep! this feels good. transition between the idle circuit and main circuit feels pretty good now with only the shyest moment of bog when stood on.

    https://youtu.be/YjywMfgUbOE

    Right, WOT testing will be fun

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  6. #1381
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Don't have a wrecker close by? When I was looking for the 32/36 I found a million DGAS nobody wanted.

    That DGV was not jetted, it was just sitting on my shelf with all the bits in it so they don't get lost. Can't remember what the jetting was in my BMW, I think there was a little card in the box, maybe it went to you? Try to find the BMW SCCA page in Trumpistan, they have this DGV only class and you might find some info there.

    What you are describing sounds like a progression problem, can you find John Passini's book? That is a brilliant book, worth having even if only for literary merit.

    https://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/d/l225...IQbzbz6-QQ.jpg

    Reading plugs is an art form (most importantly making sure you are reading the engine regime you want not an overlay of all the regimes the engine has been through). If you want to see what's happening at WOT he describes the technique of bringing the car to a halt with some very smart footwork so you get an accurate reading. The idea is that you have to shut off the carby and engine right at WOT to get an accurate reading.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  7. #1382
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    Plug reading does require a specific shutdown process to get an accurate colour to read. Mick Doohan used to shut the GP bike off on the main straight at Eastern Creek and immediately park it at the end of the straight where the mechanics ran out to take a reading. He was usually doing between 323 to 330 kph when he shut it off and pulled it up in neutral on the brakes.
    Bowie will have some trouble doing a plug check during a track day.

    With current unleaded fuel you also don't get very good plug readings. You get far more out of a gas analyser in real time for different loads and throttle positions. There are some good cheap ones around, just make sure you weld a bung in the exhaust pipe to get accurate readings.
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  8. #1383
    COL
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    Another way to get the thing tuned properly is to use a good dyno guy. It is quick easy and takes the guess work out of tuning the engine up.

    It will cost you about $250-$300 but is money well spent.

    You will then be able to use that track day concentrating on your driving and setting up the car, and of course having fun.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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  9. #1384
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    RE: Bustamif, Yeah I might get a funny look if I travel in pit lane quicker then I should be

    Hadn't realised modern fuels changed things. I've been binging on old material that come to think of it, yep would have been using leaded petrol no doubt.

    I'm due to splurge and get a fuel reg and pressure indicator, should add a wideband to the list. I'm gonna need it eventually.
    Last edited by bowie; 3rd March 2019 at 07:46 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  10. #1385
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Re DGAS Carbs (Quotes aren't working)

    Really? they seem to fetch good money even on Gumtree.

    Having said that I haven't been to a wreckers since I bought the bonnet for the 12 5yrs ago? Yeah ok I might go have a look. Old mate with the manifold and bike carbs is still some time away. He is not being rushed (I'm not rushing him) and he seems to be enjoying bitching about it.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  11. #1386
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    RE Col: Yes that's true, really only that much? I've always thought there wouldn't be much change from a $1000, hence why I was prepared to have it rich and read plugs before I get a cam and compression.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  12. #1387
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    RE Col: Yes that's true, really only that much? I've always thought there wouldn't be much change from a $1000, hence why I was prepared to have it rich and read plugs before I get a cam and compression.
    My last dyno bill was $278 back 13/4/2011.

    This was just basically dyno cell; labour and a few washers to go under jets. He adjusted timing and balanced carbs.

    Go see a dyno guy and get a quote
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

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  13. #1388
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    When I was raiding wreckers it was in SA about 10 years ago. Things might have changed, but if you have a friend in SA who can go to Lonsdale, it might be worth a shot.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  14. #1389
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    10yrs ago, Ah man the world is different now But should I find myself looking under the hoods of what, XF, XE's XD's (I suppose these are nearly collectables ) I'll keep an open mind.

    I went shopping today (got shoes to get married in now I do, they are very nice thanks for asking) and because I was feeling good about spending money, I now have a fuel regulator / gauge and a map sensor arriving sometime next week.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  15. #1390
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    For those also feeling a resurgence for a humble carb, this guy has been the clearest and most enjoyable to watch for some basic carb junk, a refresher if you will

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A44-xG3pKlY

    There are three parts.
    Sunroof likes this.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  16. #1391
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Well.... there wasn't a lot of science that happened today. Sadly I ended up working. Still I ended up with ~12 laps, and a new top speed (145km/h) and PB around the North Circuit (1:31.6) But first, Said POS doing 145km/h at turn 1.

    https://youtu.be/IpGkRYgaTmE



    That right! With the new old carbi, guessing the jets and air correctors, we are literally 10km/h faster then we where with the Solex (134km/h actually) So call that a win if for nothing else!

    Prior best lap was 1:38, so we have picked up 6s by simply guessing the jets and dropping on a bigger carbi. Throw your Solex's out everyone! And this is still with the "shit" low compression engine (810-02)

    So yes for a bolt on, it's promising just how dramatic it was.

    Up over the hill into the "flip flop" I was near enough 114, prior I was happy to break 100 after that slight climb. Exit of T18 I'm now managing ~90, before it was ~80, and I'm now crossing the start finish line at about 140 vs 117.

    Go you good old Weber.


    The day wasn't without challengers however.

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/CtaF8eE5kAexZH4S6

    That is the new throttle cable we had to install at 3pm. Just hitting the gas out of T18 on the warm up lap,

    *THAUNK*

    And the peddle fell to the floor, well off and cruise into pit lane I did, What a spot for it to break I tell you! Mercifully, this spare cable fitted within the standard peddle gromit without issue! I was preparing for weird french something but no! This standard part from Lynx (Weber Performance In Melbourne) fits the R12 peddle nicely should anyone else be looking for an R12 throttle cable.

    I also lost 1 nut, and 1 bolt. I was conscious to not bind the linkage up, turns out it could have been tighter, thankfully M8's with fine thread pitch where available in the workshop. Again incredibly the linkage stayed on the shaft and we didn't loose anything else.

    As for the bolt..
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/NKmXv3dVLLqMm6rr6

    So that was a ~40mm M8 bolt, that unscrewed itself and is now somewhere on the circuit. I'll be putting a dab of locktite on all the others now too.

    As for how it ren, generally good. I was able to rev out to 6k in the lower gears if I needed too, but it generally ren out of puf by 5k,and as such couldn't it get it much past 5,500rpm in top gear. But hey, I have no idea what fuel pressure the thing is at, actually all I know is that I'm happy with the float, and I've got the idle circuit pretty good. Hopefully some tweeking might extend it a little more, although perhaps I'm reaching the torque output of the little thing and she just won't spin much harder then that. How fast have you had your low compression 810-02 12?

    Also, that bolt might have been gone for some time, and perhaps that's why it didn't want to push much harder, but we'll see.

    All in all a great success!!

    Go to a track day everyone. They are fun.
    Last edited by bowie; 7th March 2019 at 11:39 PM.
    FIVEDOOR, COL and Renault Rod like this.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  17. #1392
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Ah my metal header pipe gasket didn't survive the brutal 145km/h

    It's blown out on 2 corners (3 bolts in total)

    That's annoying, perhaps I will find a proper gasket for it.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  18. #1393
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    Hi Bowie,

    If the gasket your referring to is the one between the exhaust header and pipe. I have a couple of spares I'll mail you one.

  19. #1394
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    This is the one I need,

    My R12 POS Arrived!-20181126_165444.jpg

    And it would be much appreciated if that's the case

    I was going to try making and sandwiching x3 together this time in effort to make it last a bit longer. The current one blew out of the corners so I figure the extra couple of gaskets together might help "shrugs"

    But if you have a proper one I can plop in that will be preferable


    In regards to exhausts, whilst I'm fsking around. I'm tempted to just bin the 2 engine pipes that come of the manifold, (they are annoying) and adapt, say a 2.1/4", 2.1/2" pipe from the manifold, carrying that down to just behind the drivers door doing away with the resonators. "shrugs"

    I'm thinking toward wanting the exhaust to be most efficient from 4000-6000 so I don't care for response below that. Understanding that when the cam comes (I can probably send that off now actually thinking about things) the bike carb manifold should be ready which will have a 4-1 system measured properly anyway. So I'm half thinking toward having the exhaust pipe if you will ready enough under the car to great that?

    Actually how about I get a calculator out and look at it properly..


    In other news I've had a couple of toys arrive in the past couple of weeks;

    -Water pump
    -AEM Wideband sensor
    -Map Sensor for the ECU

    The wide-band has the Bosch 4.9LSU sensor on it, and the gauge is this fancy dial that will look waaaaaaaaaaay to modern inside the Reno. As the faces are removable, perhaps I'll get crafty and make an ol' timy looking one, with odd hard to find fonts. Either way once installed I can start tuning the carb properly. Huzah!

    The MAP I'll connect and just have ready for when and if it ever gets to a dyno in effort to program the ignition table.

    Long story short, Rob that would be very nice of you *nods*
    Shoji likes this.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  20. #1395
    1000+ Posts Shoji's Avatar
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    At least you have a trigger wheel and a NoDiz working. Lucky bugger. Enjoy the read Bowie. keep it up!
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

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    Pm sent re gasket
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  22. #1397
    COL
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    On the exhaust gasket, get a the proper one and fit it, before installing make sure that you clean both flanges and make sure that the studs are good (if not replace them) and use some new nuts. Then is should all come together nicely and seal and also last.
    Sunroof likes this.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

  23. #1398
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    That third inner nut is in such an awkward position. (just not looking forward to such a boring job. Ah I'll take the manifold off and do it properly.

    But yes all good advice Col, noted!

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  24. #1399
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    That third inner nut is in such an awkward position. (just not looking forward to such a boring job. Ah I'll take the manifold off and do it properly.

    But yes all good advice Col, noted!
    I access those nuts from underneath the car with a long extension or two. That 3rd nut you mention is hard to get to and I use a universal /flexible coupling to access that.
    bowie likes this.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

  25. #1400
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Oh forgot to say, I picked up a fuel pressure regulator and gauge also. Dumping the gauge on, the mechanical pump is spitting out a perfect 3psi from idle to ~2krpm. It will be interesting to see what it does when I hold it wide open and empty the fuel bowl.

    Either way, an adjustable reg can now be installed to correct anything I may find. I was just surprised to see the solid 3psi smack on with the standard pump.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

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