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Thread: My R12 POS Arrived!

  1. #1251
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Gah I didn't realise it was on.

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    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

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  2. #1252
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Ah it's down to 834kg,

    My R12 POS Arrived!-img_20181022_124156690.jpg

    Suppose it must have started at 880kg. Oh well that's a good start on all the easy stuff.

    Next the glass and inner rear doors to chop away.

    When I finally get to Fiberglassing panels It should be well into the 750's.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  3. #1253
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    Wet or dry weight ?. Anyhow, believe I was correct.

    Next time you trim some weight we will know exactly how much you have reduced. Unless of course you did not check and record all the fluid levels for accurate comparison.

  4. #1254
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Car is with fluids (1/2 a tank) yes I even remembered to empty the spare wheel and tool box!

    And yes Bustamif, you, the only entrant, are the Winner!
    Last edited by bowie; 22nd October 2018 at 03:34 PM.
    renault8&10 likes this.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  5. #1255
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    So I appreciate why people just go and buy brand new drive shafts rather then replacing CV boots. What a deceivingly annoying job.

    Well it will be easier the second time. Either-way, my generic near enough new boot seems to have done the trick

    Also the CV arrangement, well Is it even a CV joint on the wheel end of the drive shaft? what an interesting looking arrangement.

    I suppose I was expecting a large ball and socket style connection with large ball bearings, But well I suppose the connection is a rod, with 3 x shafts pressed into the cup housing, and it is received by a rod, with 3 x shafts each attached with a spinning round disc.

    Anyway my brain is still hurting trying to remember what it looked like, best dig out the Haynes and commit it to memory.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  6. #1256
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Speaking of things going round and round, accidentally found a source of Yoko AO48's via the formula ford teams.

    They run a 13" x 5.5" wheel, and a 205/60 tyre. AKA what fits my rims.

    The $$$$ teams will qualify on a new tyre, then chuck it. As there cars are so light there is little wear, still. The tyre guy will take it as part of his service, he is charged when dumping them of course, so he was happy for me to grab a set.

    My R12 POS Arrived!-20181028_091226.jpg

    The price is right. They can't be any worse then the multi year nearly bold Chinese crap currently on it.

    #Bowie, whom is now more a fan of Formula Ford.
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    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Hmmm. You know you can go too wide in tire size, right?
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  8. #1258
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    So I appreciate why people just go and buy brand new drive shafts rather then replacing CV boots. What a deceivingly annoying job. Well it will be easier the second time.
    It will only be easier next time if you still remember how you did it. These boots last for years and years.....
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Hmmm. You know you can go too wide in tire size, right?
    Good point schlitzaugen however those FF tyres were developed to run on a skinny wheel. Although a much lighter car than Bowie's. I used to run them on the Lotus.

    I believe however there is a good chance that if Bowie checks the fine print on the sidewall, they could specify "for racing purposes only". Just get the grinder out and sand off the disclaimer.
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    Those yokos in 205/60-13 on 5,5 rim? I used to run them in 185/60-13 on 6" rims on my 106 Rallye.

  11. #1261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustamif View Post
    Good point schlitzaugen however those FF tyres were developed to run on a skinny wheel. Although a much lighter car than Bowie's. I used to run them on the Lotus.

    I believe however there is a good chance that if Bowie checks the fine print on the sidewall, they could specify "for racing purposes only". Just get the grinder out and sand off the disclaimer.
    I was thinking more of his power and the rolling resistance of such tires. You can mitigate some of the effect using finely tuned pressures, but it's a game of trial and error. Also the wide tire on the front is going to mess with your slip angles so the effect might be that cornering becomes a very difficult exercise.

    One also has to consider the mass of the Formula Ford cars and what sort of lateral loading the tires can cope with. Bowie's car is probably much heavier and with a tall sidewall, I am not sure what the effect is going to be.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  12. #1262
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    I think that the grip will be excellent compared to what he has at the moment. For the fun and learning curve Bowie is going through it is a good deal as is the price. My concern is completely different to yours. I am afraid that he will be getting oil surge with the extra grip and un-baffled sump. These sumps are the worst design for oil surge. It is not like a 1600 Ford Kent motor that has a bowl where the oil is in, it is a big bath type where the oil is sloshing around from the front to the back and sideways.

    With those tyres he will be getting close to 0.8 g sideways force and I think under braking he could hit the 1 g mark. At 1 g the oil level will be lying at 45 degrees and I am sure that will open up the oil pickup.

    I've no experience on the ability of a 12 on cornering but I can guarantee the above will happen with a R8/R10.

    Regards, Frans
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  13. #1263
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    The Chinese tyres on it are the same size as these new freebies, (205/13/60) and I'm comfortable with how it feels at the moment on the track, Steering isn't that much heavier, and there is still a smidge of turn in when off the gas mid corner and at corner entry. What will happen now with sticky tyres I do not know. I assume more understeer and less movement generally everywhere?

    And yes these size tyres are off a Formula Ford, so we share a sidewall size even as our weights are vastly different (min weight for them is 550kg with driver, so my 840kg + me has it at.. er... 930kg... ) Should note these tyres are also gobbled up by Toranas whom also run seek them second hand off Formula Ford Teams. Competition Toranas seem to handle ok with a 60% sidewall I'm sure my POS will be ok.

    A lot has changed since last time I was on the track however however, what now with the different geometry now it's lowered along with the koni's, and of course with a proper seat that won't toss me around.

    Good point re the oil level Frans. I'll over fill it a smidge before looking at that sump proper.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
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    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
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  14. #1264
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    I am sure you will find the Yokos a massive step up from what you were running. i would suggest less understeer and better turn in everywhere. At a guess I would run them at 30 Psi hot, and play from there. How much negative camber are you running at the front. 2.5 degrees negative will help everywhere, and run the front wheels at zero toe. I haven't followed all of the last 50 pages, and this may well have already been sorted.

    I wish my '73 BMW 2002 weighed in at 834Kg. My car is caged and road registered, and comes in at 1030Kg, track ready.
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  15. #1265
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    We have the Formula VW nationals at work, and an open private practise provided a chance to chuck the ex formula ford tyres on and go play.

    It was about ~39 degrees today, and closer to ~44 on the track, I managed to sneak out for a single proper lap at 4pm.

    Straight of the the bat, 2 seconds quicker on the stinker of the day without even trying.

    My fastest lap is now a 2:23 , which is slowly getting closer to the maximum aloud lap time at say the NSW Super-sprint championship of 2:15. So still a bit of work to do There is easy ~5secs in technique alone, and I still have the 17TS brakes to fit at the front, and, a proper wheel alignment, and to explore some camber in this things.

    This is the first time it's been out since the Koni's where installed and the springs chopped. Braking and changes of direction are naturally much much much nicer! It's not moving under brakes and it's much more inspiring if you will. I must properly learn how to now bring the brakes on as hard as possible.

    I'm not at the limit of turn in yet, well, I'm still not pushing it enough to actually have any real under-steer so I haven't scratched the limit yet, I must be brave!

    But having said that, these tyres are just amazing compared to the old street things I had, thinking back to the other laps, the old ones would have pushed out much earlier. I didn't hear a single noise out of them too, Heaps of room to push

    Right so 2m:15sec is the goal, and it just ran out of rego today! This will again be an adventure as I try to get it passed without any interior of bumper bars

    VIV LA RENO!

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
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  16. #1266
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    You guys do realise you can get the pink slip and renew your rego any time between getting the renewal notice and it actually expiring?
    No need to wait until it runs out
    KB


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    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    yes yes yes I know I know. Just haven't been organised
    Last edited by bowie; 3rd November 2018 at 09:07 AM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  18. #1268
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Well in the guest for more silliness, time to chop up those rear doors.

    But first some plastic windows ready to go in. A little bit of red texta and the old window on a flat sheet and Ta Da..

    My R12 POS Arrived!-pxk58073_01.jpg

    Cut's like butter with a angle grinder. This is 3mm think as a starting point, I figure I'll reuse all rubbers and permanently attach it in situ. Just deciding if I will attach with silicon / glue, or drill and riv-nut it.

    Also in this process cut out the inner panel and remove the window mech and associated door opening controls. I'll be keeping the standard locks in place just to keep it easy for myself. Does anyone want any of this?

    My R12 POS Arrived!-pxk58085_01.jpg

    Also interesting, the 2 doors are different. The drivers side has these two beams arccos the length of the door, same sort of thickness as the panel itself which is a weird token effort at anti-intrusion. They appear to be spot welded in place at each end and float freely against the outer panel, I.e rattle like shit no doubt. They will stay for the moment, as it will be annoying to get the grinder in there carefully. The next time I'm in door mode it will be to use these as a base for fibre-glassing. I can wait till then.

    My R12 POS Arrived!-pxk58084_01.jpg
    My R12 POS Arrived!-pxk58082_01.jpg
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    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  19. #1269
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Well in the guest for more silliness, time to chop up those rear doors.

    But first some plastic windows ready to go in. A little bit of red texta and the old window on a flat sheet and Ta Da..

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	PXK58073_01.jpg 
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    Cut's like butter with a angle grinder. This is 3mm think as a starting point, I figure I'll reuse all rubbers and permanently attach it in situ. Just deciding if I will attach with silicon / glue, or drill and riv-nut it.

    Also in this process cut out the inner panel and remove the window mech and associated door opening controls. I'll be keeping the standard locks in place just to keep it easy for myself. Does anyone want any of this?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	PXK58085_01.jpg 
Views:	25 
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ID:	110563

    Also interesting, the 2 doors are different. The drivers side has these two beams arccos the length of the door, same sort of thickness as the panel itself which is a weird token effort at anti-intrusion. They appear to be spot welded in place at each end and float freely against the outer panel, I.e rattle like shit no doubt. They will stay for the moment, as it will be annoying to get the grinder in there carefully. The next time I'm in door mode it will be to use these as a base for fibre-glassing. I can wait till then.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	110560
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The door with the intrusion bar is most likely from a Virage
    Regards Col

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  20. #1270
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    To attach I settled on a a trio of screws into the underside of the window ledge, and a heap of Sikaflex.

    The original rubber was pretty crap, and it was getting awkward to use it so gone it is, and a pseudo gasket with the Sikaflex is holding it nicely.

    I'll clean it up next weekend.

    Feels way lighter. like a woollies bag of groceries light That was good practise for the fronts and the rear window

    Yeeeeeeooow!

    My R12 POS Arrived!-smpxk58090.jpg
    My R12 POS Arrived!-smpxk58089.jpg

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
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    Will this car really pass a roadworthy?

  22. #1272
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Not if I intended to have passengers in the rear, I will have to register it as 2 seater now. I suspect that is another blue slip, well see.
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  23. #1273
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    An unusually under occupied members track day saw me with another chance to fang the 12. About 20 cars this morning, 2 groups, I think the maximum I shared the track with was 8 others.

    It was the first chance I've had to play on the South Circuit (Amaroo), and heck! what a ripper of a track! It is vastly more interesting then the GP or Druitt circuit. Up and down, a couple of hills, heaps of quick directional changes, a long sweeping off camber corner over the crest of a hill into a hard braking zone, more or less a hair pin. It's bloody great.

    And those Yoko's are still the best thing in the world. I tried to keep hot temperatures ~27, 28 and I was still getting a bit of complaint as I hit them hard, might bring them down a smidge more next time.

    Oh speaking of brakes, that off camber down hill that runs into that hard braking zone gives you but a few moments to hit the brakes hard before you think about turning in, or like me, you will find yourself quite wide.

    The gearing on the car is better suited to this track too. Pretty much 3rd the whole time with a spell in second at that hair pin. Then, keep it flat in second up over the right hander (hit the curb and get two wheels in the air for that top gun feeling) before then finally grabbing third and running down the hill once more. For the left I was hard on the brakes and third gear was great for digging me out of the final quick left right left onto the straight. Still in 3rd you can hold that all the way around up and down the hill, and until you find yourself at that hair pin once more.

    Coming in after 9 laps the brakes where steaming. The thought occurred to me I haven't even replaced the pads on this thing yet..

    Oh! I lost half my brake fluid out of the top of the master cylinder. They tell me it must have been hot. Checking the lid it's not broken, so with pressure it found its way out of the cap? Must remember to hose that off once the exhaust manifold cools down.

    All in all what a hoot! At the end of the day I was able to keep it in the 1m:16's consistently. For reference, a 86 from that Toyota racing series manages to do it in 1m:06's, so being 10 seconds behind one of those things is probably fair enough

    Oh the minimum lap speed stipulated on the cams Supersprint regs is 1m:20 for this track. So I'm quick enough for that. Woo Hoo.

    Now to fit;

    -Those vented 17 brakes
    -Give it some camber
    -Get a stinking wheel alignment
    -And I still need to get a harness. The lapsash works ok with the bucket, but I'm noticing the movement more and more.


    Oh Steering! Where all the racks the same or where there some quicker ones? The instructor sitting beside me for a session noted it had heaps of turns lock to lock. Suppose it does, and a quicker / heavier one would be ok thinking about it.

    And finally, with the broken bonnet latch a pair of bonnet pins held it down nicely.

    My R12 POS Arrived!-20181109_205643.jpg

    That wine was nice too.
    Last edited by bowie; 10th November 2018 at 05:56 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  24. #1274
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    An unusually under occupied members track day saw me with another chance to fang the 12. About 20 cars this morning, 2 groups, I think the maximum I shared the track with was 8 others.

    It was the first chance I've had to play on the South Circuit (Amaroo), and heck! what a ripper of a track! It is vastly more interesting then the GP or Druitt circuit. Up and down, a couple of hills, heaps of quick directional changes, a long sweeping off camber corner over the crest of a hill into a hard braking zone, more or less a hair pin. It's bloody great.

    And those Yoko's are still the best thing in the world. I tried to keep hot temperatures ~27, 28 and I was still getting a bit of complaint as I hit them hard, might bring them down a smidge more next time.

    Oh speaking of brakes, that off camber down hill that runs into that hard braking zone gives you but a few moments to hit the brakes hard before you think about turning in, or like me, you will find yourself quite wide.

    The gearing on the car is better suited to this track too. Pretty much 3rd the whole time with a spell in second at that hair pin. Then, keep it flat in second up over the right hander (hit the curb and get two wheels in the air for that top gun feeling) before then finally grabbing third and running down the hill once more. For the left I was hard on the brakes and third gear was great for digging me out of the final quick left right left onto the straight. Still in 3rd you can hold that all the way around up and down the hill, and until you find yourself at that hair pin once more.

    Coming in after 9 laps the brakes where steaming. The thought occurred to me I haven't even replaced the pads on this thing yet..

    Oh! I lost half my brake fluid out of the top of the master cylinder. They tell me it must have been hot. Checking the lid it's not broken, so with pressure it found its way out of the cap? Must remember to hose that off once the exhaust manifold cools down.

    All in all what a hoot! At the end of the day I was able to keep it in the 1m:16's consistently. For reference, a 86 from that Toyota racing series manages to do it in 1m:06's, so being 10 seconds behind one of those things is probably fair enough

    Oh the minimum lap speed stipulated on the cams Supersprint regs is 1m:20 for this track. So I'm quick enough for that. Woo Hoo.

    Now to fit;

    -Those vented 17 brakes
    -Give it some camber
    -Get a stinking wheel alignment
    -And I still need to get a harness. The lapsash works ok with the bucket, but I'm noticing the movement more and more.


    Oh Steering! Where all the racks the same or where there some quicker ones? The instructor sitting beside me for a session noted it had heaps of turns lock to lock. Suppose it does, and a quicker / heavier one would be ok thinking about it.

    And finally, with the broken bonnet latch a pair of bonnet pins held it down nicely.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20181109_205643.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	90.2 KB 
ID:	110665

    That wine was nice too.
    I think the R17TS had a quicker rack, would be hard to find one of those in this country. The standard rack is 3.5 turns lock to lock, not sure what the R17TS is.

    You could fit a steering quickner but that would require an engineering certificate.
    Regards Col

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  25. #1275
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Don't think so, Col. The manual says 3.5. I've got both 17TL and G racks here so I could check, but I am pretty sure it's spot on.

    Maybe a PAS car would be quicker, talk about rocking horses and their by products.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 11th November 2018 at 03:01 PM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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