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Thread: My R12 POS Arrived!

  1. #1226
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Yep, jut want the bits that go round, up and down, and Brrrrroooom Broom

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    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  2. #1227
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Yep, jut want the bits that go round, up and down, and Brrrrroooom Broom
    In that case you wont need the gear lever either
    Any day I wake up and don't have to go to work, is a good day
    Every day is a good day

  3. #1228
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Ah now you haven't seen my gear leaver at 3k rpm.

    Sometimes I wonder if it's previous life was that of a breval food processor. What I'm trying to say is, it also goes up and down at times

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  4. #1229
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    So let this be a lesson to all the Bowie's out there. Just because you can dodgy up some wiring, doesn't mean you should.

    2 x coil packs and 1 x busted ECU later I have a proper distro board with the correct fuses.

    My R12 POS Arrived!-img_20181006_002935508.jpg

    For today, it will be enough to get the ECU and coil pack on with there own fused circuits. I'll add the thermo fan later once I've got the ECU reading the temperature adequately. I've got a manual gauge and sensor to install and play with to test first, Ah we'll see the thermo fan works pretty well where it is.

    I have 3 circuits free of course for all the other jazz it might end up with, that is I'll probably replace the old light relays and bring them over to this distro board. At that point, I will certainly upgrade that thin main wire to support everything, have no fear. Oh, so this bank is going to be switched by the old 12v coil lead, and the earths are also combined to go straight back to the battery. I measured the resistance at a couple of points on the body and it varied wildly, so back to battery for me.

    Oh the other fun thing today it to install the kill switches.

    Cams said I need two, one to operate by the driver, and one for fire resuce to use when you are unconscious near enough the A-Pillar.

    I'm thinking I may install it in the "scuttle panel?" more or less where the cabin blower sits, and route the earth leads into the cabin switch like that, and then back out to the battery under the bonnet. SO I will have 2 kill switches controlling earth. I got lost on the internet reading about people who switch the positive and not the earth, stating examples where cars have collided and then re earthed themselves.

    Cams says nothing more then a device to ensure the battery is isolated, so I'll just switch the earth.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  5. #1230
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Success!

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/isUWvLgZGUmYRpFr8

    Spark is really important, I had forgotten how cool the elec ignition was. Pulls harder, revs stronger, and started first time after sitting for a week. I should probably increase the gap in the plugs to take advantage of it now.

    A fang to wollies to keep the misses happy with ice cream in the freezer resulted in no surprises. I must hurry up with getting a cam the head shaved, and I might even just put the 32/36 on it whilst I'm waiting for the motorbike manifold to be complete.

    Oh and finally removing the coil allowed me to move the catch can, there was a surprising amount of crap in there actually. It's still under the 2L "cams" requirement, but there is heaps of room there now should I ever need it to be compliant.

    In the short term however I've smacked a CV boot!

    I have Shoji's old shafts to practise on, and I have what looks like a pretty close fit. I went to Repco with the shaft in hand and the guy came out with a box and said "help yourself"

    Anyway, best get that sorted before I drive it much anywhere I suppose


    Oh! Pro Tip!

    mounting the distro box straight to the guard has some of the screws that carry the 12v get wonderfully close to the panel! I cut a small square out of the plastic underlay that used to sit under the carpet in effort to insulate it, rather then making some kind of fandangled bracket. The Relays actually have a nice step from the mounting plate that holds them nicely. Very thoughtful Chinese electronic shop.
    Last edited by bowie; 18th October 2018 at 04:32 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  6. #1231
    Fellow Frogger! Shoji's Avatar
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    Renault 12, (810) Happy Happy

    Very good Bowie with the NoDiz. Well done
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

  7. #1232
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Oh I should add. Hooked up the 12v aftermarket tacho I bought to use on the coil prior, worked straight away, and has a cleaner signal.

    Now.. to wire up the launch control

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  8. #1233
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    On engine temps I find my engine on my R12 runs a lot cooler in the winter, what I was going to do and haven't got around to it yet is to cut up some 3 mm ply and slide down between the radiator and the grill on the right side of the radiator, which will effectively make it a smaller radiator and should raise the temp of the motor and make it easier for the thermostat to control the engine temp to the desired temp.

    Remember when you open up the heater tap you are increasing the cooling capacity unlike on modern cars.

    Also in cooler climates you could buy a radiator screen for this purpose.
    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    After all this talk about engine temps and radiator sizes I went and made a radiator screen out of 3 mm aluminium sheet that was recycled from a sign off a shed at work.

    I have made it 195 mm wide which covers just over a third of the radiator. I may have to cut it down a bit if the engine gets to hot, so will just suck it and see.
    This was talked about in July, and I have just remembered that I was going to report back on this. The reason why it has taken so long is that I have only driven the car a few times since then and those times were in the last couple of weeks.

    The 195mm wide piece of aluminium that I have installed seems about right with the temp gauge running about half way. We are still having cool nights down here and thats when I have been driving the car.

    All I need to do is make it so I can slide the piece of aluminium in and out easily, at present it is jammed in between the radiator and from front panel.
    bowie likes this.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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    1995 Renault Laguna V6
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  9. #1234
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    I appreciate that physical hack if you will to control it. Glad it's working out ok

    I'm having trouble with earths now.

    I wired up the two kill switches in series, ie.

    Started Motor Neg - 1st Switch Neg
    1st Switch Pos - 2nd Switch Neg
    2nd Switch Pos back to Bat Neg

    Still with me? I'm not I am, I won't confess that I had everything wired in Parallel and was utterly confused for longer then I care to admit.

    So I have two points (switches) where I can discount the earth and stop the blasted thing. Or can I?

    I note now there is small earth that connects the started motor neg to the chassis, no thicker then say cheap speaker wire. To save re joining wires, I moved the earth for the fuse box and ecu which were on the battery, directly to the starter motor neg. This was done in preference instead of extending them up to the 1st switch location (bottom of the A-pillar).

    So with the switches set to off, no dash lights, the thing wont fire, great. Switching either switch, or both to off however doesn't kill it when it's running. I can only assume that small earth is providing enough of a path to keep the ecu and coil running.

    So Any drama's if I just delete that earth of the starter motor? or is that the chassis earth? (surely not big enough) Perhaps I can just create another one directly off the battery or alternator?
    Last edited by bowie; 11th October 2018 at 10:00 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  10. #1235
    COL
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    Bowie

    You need to have both your isolator switches in series so that opening either one will remove power from the car, which sounds like what you have,

    With this set up to work 100% you need to move everything that was connected to the negative terminal of the battery to actual chassis or the terminal of the isolation switch where that cable goes to the chassis or engine/transmission.

    Hope this makes sense
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1995 Renault Laguna V6
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

  11. #1236
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Yes I agree. And this is what I've done. well, no that is what I have done and still the power exists.

    Gah I'll check what I've done with some more light

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  12. #1237
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    So before you started changing the wiring, did you check that disconnecting the battery when the motor was running would stop the motor? I don't believe it would - the alternator is generating current which keeps the plugs firing etc. - but it seems that without the battery in the circuit there is an increased chance of damaging elecronic components. Here's a little discussion on the topic: https://community.cartalk.com/t/what...-running/82462 Your "kill" switches work the same as disconnecting a battery - great for preventing electrons from leaking out of the battery when the engine's not running. This can be a good thing - a friend recently had a brand-new tractor burst into flames at 10 o'clock at night, and destroy itself and the shed it was in, plus all shed contents - it seems that incorrectly assembled wiring was pinched or rapidly wore through the insulation, causing a short and the fire. Your kill switch - if switched off when the car (or tractor) was parked - should prevent this, but I am pretty sure it is in the wrong place if you want it to stop the engine! Cheers Alec

  13. #1238
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    It's all rather peculiar really. I formatted the above post as I typed it, but formatting was lost when posted. I have tried 3 different web browsers, but am not permitted to make any changes (I can Edit, but Save does not function). No doubt same will happen with this post. Cheers Alec

  14. #1239
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Alec, you would be right if the car still ran on the dizzy.

    But he has an electronic ignition now.

    His engine doesn't die probably because he didn't isolate the module negative from the alternator negative (engine block, car body, whatever).

    It would be probably a good idea to isolate the negative of the ignition coil as well (I see it is bolted to the head, hence getting negative directly from the alternator when the engine is running).
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 12th October 2018 at 05:27 AM.
    Armidillo likes this.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  15. #1240
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    The battery is ONLY used in starting the car.
    While the engine is running all the power required is supplied by the alternator (assuming the alternator's current rating is high enough, which it should).

    Disconnecting the battery while the engine is running will not stop the motor and the most it will do is perhaps destroy the alternator.
    Like Schlitzy said, you need to kill the power to the ignition circuit.

    Cheers
    RTT
    "I cannot help but notice that there is no problem between us that cannot be solved by your departure."

  16. #1241
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    Bowie I am surprised that someone where you work has not already explained this. There is a test your ARDC scrutineers do to check that race cars competing at your workplace will shut down instantly when the isolation switch is pulled.

    The isolation switches don't work on the earth as REN says.

    The CAMS regs include a wiring diagram and explanation. There is also a CAMS/FIA approved isolation switch available which includes an extra couple of tags to kill ignition power, the kit comes with a resistor. Usually sold by one of the retailers at your race events and I recall they were also sold at the ARDC shop when it operated beside your office.

  17. #1242
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    I just realised what I have done :S

    In my stupor (that's all I can really call it) I've hooked up the isolation switches to the battery side, not the alternator side.

    #facepalm


    Bustamif, yes they did explain, but somehow it got lost in translation (my head).. I haven't had a chance to check with the scrutineers, (been away from the race meetings)

    In regards to the cams diagram, I did go looking there. The only reference I found via Schedule A through N was in C of course;

    Each automobile of the 2nd and 3rd Category shall be equipped with a battery isolation (master) switch which isolates the battery and stops the engine, and:
    (i) it shall be capable of being operated by the driver in his normal seated position;
    (ii) there shall be a second switch, or a remote means of operating the main switch, from the vicinity of the base of the A pillar on the driver’s side or, for an automobile with no A pillar, in a comparable position; and
    (iii) each external device shall be clearly marked by a symbol showing a red spark in a white-edged blue triangle of minimum edge length 150mm;


    Perhaps there is more info in a category specific docs?

    Anyway, I'll try disconnecting the actual alternator #face palm.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  18. #1243
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    Bowie, I agree the info is too hard to find through CAMS, it was in technical bulletins. Easier to check the range available from Pegasus in the US, search kill switches where you will also find wiring diagrams. Some of the latest stuff that is FIA approved for racing has remote actuation to reduce cable runs and save weight. www.pegasusautoracing.com
    bowie likes this.

  19. #1244
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Anyone need a nice light shroud? And or the cross bar from a 12 and wiring it comes with?

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/eNwqGqLyES8ohbeH7
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/iGGivAMKv1ohCYP56

    Yours for a good joke!

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  20. #1245
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Wadda?!

    Trying to shed weight?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  21. #1246
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Yes of course.

    I've got my eyes on the bracing under the bonnet and boot lid, along with the rear doors next. Well as soon as I save enough change for plastic windows, I'll be cutting the mechanisms and the interior brace, whilst riveting / gluing to the frame.

    Oh I should say. My drivers rear door is actually without rust. Considering I'll be cutting it up, if anyone has a slightly rustier one, providing it's fiber-boggable, I'd be happy to do a swap.

    The next step is to teach myself how to fibreglass and make some moulds of the bonnet and boot lid. Both shapes seem pretty approachable for a novice like me. The guards don't looks that crazy easier.

    Actually before that, when I buy the plastic I'll do the rear window too.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  22. #1247
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    My R12 POS Arrived!-img_20181017_170030879_burst000_cover_top.jpg

    "Laila, what are you doing in there?"
    "Hiding my bones from you Dad. Hope you don't mind as I dig them into the passenger seat."
    "Yes I do mind! Get out of there!"
    "But Daaaaaaad"
    "Laila get down now"
    "....you're a jerk"

    J-man, Sunroof and COL like this.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  23. #1248
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Ah it feels so good to look at the engine bay now without that dang hose going up over to the top corner and back under the fuel pump

    My R12 POS Arrived!-img_20181016_182526449%7E2.jpg

    Yes I'm that vain, but I'm ok with it.

    Another fang this afternoon down the free-way to make sure nothing else was going to fall off, and nope, it's ok.

    No leaks from the 16mm plugs I found and secured so happy happy. I ended up at the Reno spiritual weekend home (Silverwater) and there was an MG concourse going on. We'll I'll be! dare'd not stop and chat as they were already looking at me with suspicion. Didn't help the cause with it being filthy after the storm no doubt.

    Also, no blown fuses or ecu's! more success! Oh I did tidy up that wiring, I have a nice cover collecting them from the fire wall to that mini distro- block, and again out of the coil pack so all is contained.

    Anyway going to eight it tomorrow to see if anything, what has been improved. You should place bets now! Actually what do you reckon. The following has been removed;

    -Rear seats & belts
    -Carpet, underlay and sound deadening
    -Roof lining
    -Interior kick panels
    -Side vent covers,
    -Boot lining (including carpet pieces on the sides)
    -Bumper bars
    -Heater matrix & hoses

    What's been added to give it more weight?
    -21mm rear sway bar
    -18mm front sway bar
    -6" widened R18 wheels,

    The wheels are a killer over the originals actually.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it's only 15kg different after all that. The interior wasn't really plush after all. If it's under 900kg I'll be very surprised.


    #wait! I just checked the weight in the "InterEurope Workshop Manual" and they list the kerb as 880kg.

    Naaaaaah.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  24. #1249
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    OK, I'll guess you saved about 30 to 40kg.

  25. #1250
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Did you forget where the tyrekickers is held?
    Across the road, and a little down the road towards newington from where you were.
    KB


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