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Thread: My R12 POS Arrived!

  1. #926
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    .... I must have missed that thread..
    I think it was in this thread, Bozo.

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    Bowie, a word of caution when you choose your suspension setup, if you intend to continue to improve your car for the track days on a race track such as SMP it will not require the same suspension as a rally setup. Many suspension upgrades on the R12 G are for a dirt surface, not doing laps at Eastern Creek. I was there today testing on the newly resurfaced track and it is a long way from being a rally on a dirt fire trail !.

    On that billiard table surface with no potholes, the process should start with suitably stiff springs then select anti roll bars to trim out the balance.

    I know this may offend some people on here so I apologise however I picked up this great sticker at an IMSA sports car race at Sears Point back in the day.

    My R12 POS Arrived!-tri7d55.jpg
    Last edited by Bustamif; 23rd January 2018 at 08:21 PM.
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  3. #928
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Oh I don't know, turn 1 is still a bit of a field (fixing it again tomorrow) And I hope you weren't in that BMW that tried to plant potatoes on the exit of turn 1..

    But yes quite true re what the "gordini" was trying to be. The next suspension stop will be with someone who knows springs, and I'll be clear with my objectives (overtaking 911's on on the outside of turn 18) and go from there.

    A modest set of "stock" 15/17 sway bars will only reduce the body roll no doubt to keep me interested in the ol' gurl.

    schlitzaugen, it may have been.. actually yeah. found them
    Last edited by bowie; 24th January 2018 at 12:33 AM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  4. #929
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post


    Oh I don't know, turn 1 is still a bit of a field (fixing it again tomorrow) And I hope you weren't in that BMW they tried to plant potatoes on the exit of turn 1..

    But yes quite true re what the "gordini" was trying to be. The next suspension stop will be with someone who knows springs, and I'll be clear with my objectives (overtaking 911's on on the outside of turn 18) and go from there.

    A modest set of "stock" 15/17 sway bars will only reduce the body roll no doubt to keep me interested in the ol' gurl.

    schlitzaugen, it may have been.. actually yeah. found them
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    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  5. #930
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    In Elephant years?

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  6. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post

    I hope you weren't in that BMW that tried to plant potatoes on the exit of turn 1..
    No Bowie, I was having a run in a race car to do a systems check after major engine rebuild. You will be pleased to know it has a Renault V6 (PRV) dissi cap on the Chevy V6 odd fire engine.

    My R12 POS Arrived!-tri599c.jpg My R12 POS Arrived!-tri339c.jpg

    I also think that if you want to pass 911's round the outside in the R 12, lowering it about 3 or 4 inches with stiff springs and welding up the diff will help more than sway bars.
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  7. #932
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    Oh that was yours! Nice! We were arguing if we preferred that or the Viper in the office on the day.

    And yes I think the PRV dissi cap is a nice touch.

    Yes I was going to save the questions about welding the diff to much later. We used to do as much in Charades when I was little(r). We didn't care about them, and it was great. Well great is relative.

    BUT BACK TO GREAT DISCUSSIONS ABOUT STOCK SWAY BARS!!

    So yes, (all you all know) it turned a rolly-polly 12 in to a much more "modern" feeling car. These bars are a nice stop gap until I get serious. It still feels "meh" in the rear, well it's still very understeery, although it feels much tighter which is nice.

    I Imagine I'm going to get board and throw the little one back in there against the large one later no doubt.

    (Thanks again V )

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  8. #933
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Oh that was yours! Nice! We were arguing if we preferred that or the Viper in the office on the day.

    And yes I think the PRV dissi cap is a nice touch.

    Yes I was going to save the questions about welding the diff to much later. We used to do as much in Charades when I was little(r). We didn't care about them, and it was great. Well great is relative.

    BUT BACK TO GREAT DISCUSSIONS ABOUT STOCK SWAY BARS!!

    So yes, (all you all know) it turned a rolly-polly 12 in to a much more "modern" feeling car. These bars are a nice stop gap until I get serious. It still feels "meh" in the rear, well it's still very understeery, although it feels much tighter which is nice.

    I Imagine I'm going to get board and throw the little one back in there against the large one later no doubt.

    (Thanks again V )

    The more you stiffen the front, the more understeery it is going to be, bozo. Go back to your front sway bar and see what happens.
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    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  9. #934
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    The more you stiffen the front, the more understeery it is going to be, bozo. Go back to your front sway bar and see what happens.
    Yes indeed I was expecting as much.

    I managed to sneek it on to the figure 8 this afternoon, in second gear I was able to break traction on the tighter sections accelerating out of slow sections. I hadn't been able to prior. This is with the 205's too for what it's worth, and yes, I did actually check tyre pressures to see if they where the same.

    So it's certainly lifting the inside wheel. It was really nice and progressive too. I could balance on the throttle to replicate and control for the loss of traction, it turned in turned in turned in and then you could feel it just start to reach its limits and give in to undeersteer. That feedback was good.

    In the Volvo it turns pretty evenly and then just wheelspin like a switch when it says no, no more turning for you.

    And heck! changing directions is much much nicer.

    I suppose it "feels" the same in relation to undeersteer and balance as it did prior, but with just much less roll? I'm not sure I have the vocabulary to explain it clearly. Oh I don't have too as you all have pretty much experienced this hahah.

    I'm going to try and add the second bar into the back to see what that does as far as that lovely progressive traction feeling I had.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

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  10. #935
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    Try it with the stock 12 sway bar on the front, and the 17TL/12 wagon sway bar on the rear. I found the thick 17TL bar on the front was just too stiff with the stock springs, and accentuated the understeer. Then start experimenting with the tyre pressures, you may be able to coax some trailing throttle oversteer.
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  11. #936
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Yep. What Simon said.

    Keep in mind, you don't want to go past the point where you break traction. That is time lost for your lap.

    And resist trying to get smart with locked diffs and such. For you right now, that is a band aid at best and it won't help you with your problem, which is to make use of ALL the grip and all the power you have right now. A locked diff right now will rob you of more power than it would help you put down. Wait until you spin more than 150HP or so at the wheels for a locked diff. Until then you're wasting more power than saving and accentuating your understeer problem.

    In a rear wheel drive car, it would be a different story. Read Frans' thread to learn more.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  12. #937
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Just want to say, fresh gearbox oil is amazing. Feels like a brand new gearbox.

    Fresh oil for you every 12m now.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

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  13. #938
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Well another odd afternoon free with a bit of sun, suppose I best get ahead and clean up those wagon drums sent from across the continent.

    Mandatory before;
    My R12 POS Arrived!-img_20180202_161553153.jpg

    And now with blackness added.
    My R12 POS Arrived!-img_20180202_173944431.jpg

    Those bearings you sent over V look fine I'll put some new wheel cylinders in it anyway as they will just look horrible next to the shiny black bits (and they were both rusted shut on one end)

    My R12 POS Arrived!-img_20180202_174007339.jpg

    I think I've read enough to know how to rebuild the master cylinder now (did some of you replace it with a modern Kangoo one just because?) I'll front up to my favourite reno shop and pick a kit up (or just another master if it looks at all pitted) along with those rear cylinders, some brake lines and fittings, a slab of beer, then I think I'll do all of this;

    -Rear Drums
    -Brake lines
    -Front hubs / brakes
    -All the bearings
    -Master Cyl / booster

    at once under the watchful eye of the maintenance crew at work. For no doubt there help will be off assistance when I gaff something up.

    Actually another afternoon of cleaning / painting. I have to do those front caliper brackets, calipers, dust guard, oh. I best add some flexible / stainless / whatever brake hose to the list since it will all be off.

    VIV LA FRANCE! and VIV LA HAYNES MANUAL.
    59 Floride and Shoji like this.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  14. #939
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    And the bowie wept, for there were no more external brake / suspension / brackets to clean and paint.

    My R12 POS Arrived!-blacker-bits.jpg

    No not really, but glad it's all ready to "lego" together now. I did the math on the rest of the bits I'll need and there will be a few pay cycles before I can get it all. Nearly nearly.



    P.s Oh! I did the math, well I've been keeping track of what I've spent on this thing. Since 2015, my $600 Pos 12, and this thread, is worth $7,020 (minus labour of course). Lets see if I can keep it under $10k by the time I put springs and that second head with webber on it..
    Last edited by bowie; 3rd February 2018 at 06:50 PM.
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    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

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    You have just broken one of the rules of older car ownership.

    We only ever estimate what we have spent, and it's always significantly less than what reckon we might have spent.

    We are then able to justify to ourselves, and our better half, the benefits of such ownership.

    Tsk, tsk!!
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  16. #941
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    My mistake. I should have taken those bearings out and not send them to you.

    Don't go el cheapo on bearings, Bowie, they cost pennies in the big scheme of things and they are almighty important.

    And while I think there may be some life left in those I sent you (inadvertently), my parental advice to you is to get new ones. They're nothing special, you should be able to get them anywhere for pennies like I said. Especially since you're not going to pamper the car.

    If you want to check the old bearings, you need to take all the grease out, and have a good look at the rollers and the races. And if and only if you can't see any pitting or other surface damage are they worth keeping (at a pinch). Use a powerful magnifier. My money sez you're going to find some wear. I might find the one I know fell out and check that one for you and give you my verdict if you want, but it was never my intention to have you use those old things.

    What is next on your shopping list?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  17. #942
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Yeah fair point with the bearings. I might use them just as a demo just to remind myself how they go in.

    Re shopping list; no real order I kinda have to collect them all before I start the work.

    -Good front pads
    -Brake hard line / connectors / soft line's (might as well replace them)
    -Master Cylinder rebuilt kit / new cylinder if it's pitted (see what the $$ difference is really).
    -Rear bearings
    -Rear wheel cylinders
    -I'm temped to do the rear shoes whilst it's all apart just because.. will check condition carefully.
    -Good fluid.


    I think that's it?

    Might check that the handbrake cable will mount in ok, the shoes and mechanism looked different from the last time I had the drums of mine.. that was some time ago and I probably wasn't looking that hard.

    Oh.. the valve at the rear, proportioning valve? that will be the only old thing left in the circuit.. best add that to the replacement list too.
    Last edited by bowie; 5th February 2018 at 12:52 AM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  18. #943
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Well she's certainly a keeper if she puts up with me and a reno. She said yes.

    Engaged.

    My R12 POS Arrived!-pxk57385.jpg

    My R12 POS Arrived!-pxk57360.jpg
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    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  19. #944
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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My R12 POS Arrived!-fjm.png  

  20. #945
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Well she's certainly a keeper if she puts up with me and a reno. She said yes.

    Engaged.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Congrats Bowie and partner.
    “Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.” Cheers. John

  21. #946
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shoji View Post
    Congrats Bowie and partner.
    Ditto
    Regards Col

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  22. #947
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    + 1 from me

  23. #948
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    +1 from me too!
    JohnW

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  24. #949
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    But enough about me being engaged. One of the flag officials surprised me with a photo he took from the hill last time I was on the track.

    My R12 POS Arrived!-img_20180208_160733126.jpg

    I'm just going to pretend I was going more then 60km/h and that it actually has really stiff suspension in there and that it was not my first time on the track and that I didn't bugger up turn 3 every single time.

    Go find a race track everyone. (And get back on it bowie)

    Wait I can help with that! Next members track day! 5th April. .. Oh that's to far away.

    2nd of March, Private practice. Gardner Circuit, (All you need is a L2S licence and a helmet)
    7th March, Track day, Gardner Circuit (no L2S required)
    21st March, Track day, Gardner Circuit (no L2S required)
    5th April, Members track day, Gardner Circuit (no LS2 required, but you need to be a ARDC member)
    13th April, Private Practice, Gardner Circuit (L2S required)
    24th April, Track day, Gardner Circuit (no L2S required)

    Yeah that's enough!

    Maybe I can get organised for the 7th march...
    Last edited by bowie; 8th February 2018 at 06:51 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  25. #950
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    Congrats on the engagement. If she begins to object to the car thing, just remind her that the Renault came before the engagement and it is really hard to find a good R12.

    As to the track days you mentioned, when is the next one on the track they call the "Amaroo Circuit"?. I was going to bring the Gordini to the last one but the alternator died the night day before. The R8G would not be much fun on the rev limiter half way down the straight on the GP track or Nth Circuit so I am hoping for a track day on the Amaroo circuit. It would be interesting to see how those mods to your R12 work on the tight track.

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