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Thread: My R12 POS Arrived!

  1. #851
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Whilst the video is sorting itself out.

    This is what fun looks like.

    GPS Timer said the following; (GPS Tab has more dumb data)

    Advertisement


    Session 1:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Session 2:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Session 3: (cut short)
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Fun equals a min of 60kph, max of 130kph, all day long. So happy with this thing. It sat between 4 and 5k pretty much all day and I was getting 1:39's pretty consistently by the end of it.


    Wooo HOOO!
    Frans likes this.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  2. #852
    COL
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    Looks like you had fun Bowie which is the main criteria.

    Putting on R17 brakes (ventilated front and 9" drums on the rear) and stabiliser bars should improve your times, and if you can afford them a set of Konis.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1995 Renault Laguna V6
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

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  3. #853
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Well done!!! So many talks about it and you actually did it.

    Take care with one thing, tyres. New street tyres might not give you the handling you have now. If possible keep those for another session or two or maybe three. New tyres have too much flex and doesn't grip like these which is on their way to becoming a slick. The guys with sponsors or big wallets in Formula Ford will buy a brand new set of tyres and have them skimmed to be barely legal so that they do not have the thickness and flex.

    Try and keep them one side for this use (provided it is dry).

    Regards, Frans.
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  4. #854
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    It's really worth keeping those tyres, on there way to becoming slicks? I suppose they are. I just assumed the compound would be cheap crap. But I suppose the motorbike had the rubber bead like that as well. If it's melting it's working?

    And Cheers Frans. Yes was a hoot! can't wait for the next something now. And it wasn't that scary once a few laps where under my belt. Everyone was pretty nice on the circuit for what it's worth. I was conscious about holding up BMW's etc etc but they made their way around me, it really wasn't that big of a deal.

    Most in the paddock where surprised it made it to the end haha. The day claimed that WRX and a nice new 911 GT3 (freshly rebuilt) sadly.

    Ah I'm still buzzing.

    Yes brakes. As I wasn't gong fast enough to abuse them (mentioned prior, really only turn 2 and 8 slightly) they held up well I was expecting to be without pad on the drive home but it was ok. It does move a lot under hard braking. It felt as if the car was flexing in the middle, arse trying to come about, was fantastic

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  5. #855
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    Well done Bowie. I agree with Frans, a lot of people talk about it but you went out and did it.

    To add to what Frans said about the read on your tyres, they are fine to use on the next event and will give you a very good base figure on your first test data. I would suggest you will get an improvement by turning them on the rim as in normal race car procedure. Mark where they are now, eg left front right rear etc (you would have seen teams doing that at some of the events at SMP). Then to get faster times and longer tyre life, change the left rear to the right rear keeping the same direction of tyre rotation and do the same on the front. However if the front tyre is wearing much more, being a front drive car on a left hand track, then make the front right the left rear for the next run.

    This is much cheaper than bolting on new bits and will give a guaranteed time improvement at the next run, assuming it is dry of course.

  6. #856
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Well that sounds sensible. I assumed there would be issues with street tyres once the tread wore down, but perhaps not.

    Oh,

    Have a low quailty lap,

    https://youtu.be/KGen1b7QRWI

    and a low quality in lap. (because everyone likes going into the pits)

    https://youtu.be/FIrvhVIuIiE

    It really felt faster then it looked
    Last edited by bowie; 27th November 2017 at 09:44 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  7. #857
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    Its the opposite Bowie, you need to get less tread on a street tyre so there is less block movement which is why slicks were invented.

    On production based one make series using street tyres, tyre management is the key to performance. The tyre is the final contact patch with the road and its not very big so you have to get as much out of it as you can.

    BTW, I worked with Nick Leddingham who won one of the first Australian one make series - the Renault Newstar series promoting the New Renault R12. Part of the prize was a trip to France to compete in the Formula Renault open wheeler series.

    Nick became a pretty high level motorsport administrator and at one time the Australian delegate to the FIA.

    So an R12 can be a good move in a motorsport career.

  8. #858
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Ah sorry yes I was more thinking about regulations around track days that require "street legal" craft to be present. And I had assumed scrutineering would expect a street tyre to be "in service" as it were for events sanctioned by cams. I didn't even think to question if they would care.

    Makes total sense in regards to getting rid of the contact patch and turning it into a slick. I confess I'm still bemused that the compound would be similar / serviceable in a "slick" format. Whats stopping as all from buying Bob Janes and shaving them at home?

    And from Newstart in a 12 to an FIA delegate. Well there's a distant hope for me yet

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  9. #859
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    Nice work man, I'm spewin my phone won't play the vids!

    Little bit of useless info in regards to tyres for ya.
    Many moons ago, when I was a much younger tyre fitter, I worked at a shop that supplied all the tyres for the South Aussie HQ series. These were just regular Kumho road tyres, 225/60R14, that we put on a tyre lathe and cut down to 3mm tread depth. Then, depending on each driver's preference, we chamfered either one or both shoulders.

    Point of the story is yours still have a bit left in em for track work, they do grip better the lower they get... to a point. Then they don't.

    Enjoy buddy, and don't stop posting your progress!

    Sent from my SM-G900I using aussiefrogs mobile app
    Bustamif and bowie like this.

  10. #860
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Suppose I should look and see what box it has,

    I'm unsure what is fancy about the 395 crownwheel... was that to mount the 807?

    [...]

    The drive was a spare when I had a 395 box here. You could use it to build yourself a custom box with pick and choose ratios.

    And by the way, 12 wagons have R17 drums.

    And there is a full set of adjustable Konis (brand spanking new) with someone I know.

    All that aside, right now you need some proper ignition, but even before that you can just whack on that carby you got from me (not the DGV but the old solex I pulled off my car). That is capable of 150km/h as is. Should spin your engine easily past 5500. Just slap it on for a test see what happens. Ideally you should grow up and get the DGV on sooner. That'll probably need you do something about the brakes.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  11. #861
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    just look at her go

    My R12 POS Arrived!-23844442_2100752239938814_4210774641971139555_n.jpg

    That's half way into 4, third gear, 4k rpm, trying hard.


    I do worry the box I'm asking of you is already getting pretty large;

    -sway bars
    -front calipers
    -rocker arm / valve train ensemble


    Re the drums, I would need a different stub axle carrier / beam to accommodate the larger drums don't I? I remember folks collecting the entire end to swap in, or does everything just slide on..


    And the Koni's. Yes I heard about a pair of fronts hiding under someones bed. I feel $$$ would be my limiting factor in securing them at the moment. So shhh already and stop talking about them until I can save adequately.
    Last edited by bowie; 28th November 2017 at 01:01 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  12. #862
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    oh I found a nerd tool to graph the Phone GPS data

    https://serious-racing.com/p/gFoO.html

    It's like Forza 7 / Grand Tourismo only in a Renault.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  13. #863
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    That seems to indicate you were off the track almost as much as you were on it!
    KB


  14. #864
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    yeah the zoom is a little weird.. and it was recorded of the phones GPS jammed in the passenger seat. I mean Autocross is what 12's where made for

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  15. #865
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    just look at her go

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	23844442_2100752239938814_4210774641971139555_n.jpg 
Views:	41 
Size:	93.6 KB 
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    That's half way into 4, third gear, 4k rpm, trying hard.


    I do worry the box I'm asking of you is already getting pretty large;

    -sway bars
    -front calipers
    -rocker arm / valve train ensemble


    Re the drums, I would need a different stub axle carrier / beam to accommodate the larger drums don't I? I remember folks collecting the entire end to swap in, or does everything just slide on..


    And the Koni's. Yes I heard about a pair of fronts hiding under someones bed. I feel $$$ would be my limiting factor in securing them at the moment. So shhh already and stop talking about them until I can save adequately.

    Don't think so (re big drum brakes from R17/R12 wagon). I think you might need the backing plate, but ask around to make sure.


    As for the konis the're not under the bed. They have their own place on the shelf. Ask and you shall find out.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  16. #866
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    That is a great tool. I'd like to see my movements around a track like that. I wonder how acurate it is?

  17. #867
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    The actual software was called "Race Chrono" that link is just a front end that allows easy sharing of exported data on zee web.

    Using a phones GPS, they reckon it's accurate to +/- 0.1secconds. But it did record me in autocross mode at times.. so kinda accurate? Good enough for me to have some kind of idea of what it is doing however. Like a rough look at the index.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  18. #868
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    So feeler gauges are great! You weren't wrong about the smooth idle either.

    And gee's it a little quieter now..Can't wait to take it for a fang on the weekend.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  19. #869
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    So feeler gauges are great! You weren't wrong about the smooth idle either.

    And gee's it a little quieter now..Can't wait to take it for a fang on the weekend.
    Good stuff Bowie, it certainly makes a huge difference to idle quality.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1995 Renault Laguna V6
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

  20. #870
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    yes it was um.. well i suppose they hadn't been adjusted for some time.

    Oh also!

    that oil leak I had out of the back of the engine, rear main seal, well after thrashing it the other day it's stopped. The Reno is fixing itself.

    Suppose it could have been curd in the oil that kinda just got to the seal and was hanging there for a bit, or that continual high rpm either flushed it all out, our ground down the impure seal

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  21. #871
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Or you're out of oil.

    Get yourself a baffled sump, that way oil is not going to splash around everywhere anymore.

    Regarding valve timing, the best way to do it is to get yourself a protractor you bolt to the crankshaft so you can precisely find the opening and closing angles and adjust valves so they open and close at those points.

    What you have done with the feeler gauge is the next best thing, a compromise of sorts.

    Using the protractor (it can be home made, but make it as accurately as you can) you also need to find a way to measure when the pistons are at top (and bottom) dead centre by taking the plugs out and inserting some measuring tool in the cylinder (again some clever design required here given that your spark plugs are not at the top of the chamber, but not that hard to bodge something pretty accurate).
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  22. #872
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Well what do we have here.

    My R12 POS Arrived!-img_20171211_174848791.jpg

    (it occurs to me my left hand has featured often here, who knows if i even have a right hand.. who... knows...)

    Not many events left for 2017, but at least I'm now ready to fill 2018 with stupid stories of wheels falling off, running out of petrol, and hopefully not hitting anything.

    Oh for those like me, whom have had nothing to do with motorsport, this is but a Cams LS2 license that allows one to enter regularity and super-sprint events. Obtaining it was as difficult as filling out an online form and giving them a 100~ bananas. It was mailed back to me within a week.

    This will allow me to now turn up check in at race events (regularity and supersprints), remembering to smile nicely at the little old ladies whom will look over it no doubt, before I get in my road registered car and jam it around in circles until I get bored.

    It really isn't that difficult at all.

    and If I can get myself organised..

    My R12 POS Arrived!-if-bowie-can-do-you-can-do-.jpg
    Last edited by bowie; Yesterday at 06:10 PM.
    Leeroy69 likes this.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  23. #873
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Well what do we have here.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20171211_174848791.jpg 
Views:	19 
Size:	41.0 KB 
ID:	101885

    (it occurs to me my left hand has featured often here, who knows if i even have a right hand.. who... knows...)

    Not many events left for 2017, but at least I'm now ready to fill 2018 with stupid stories of wheels falling off, running out of petrol, and hopefully not hitting anything.

    Oh for those like me, whom have had nothing to do with motorsport, this is but a Cams LS2 license that allows one to enter regularity and super-sprint events. Obtaining it was as difficult as filling out an online form and giving them a 100~ bananas. It was mailed back to me within a week.

    This will allow me to now turn up check in at race events (regularity and supersprints), remembering to smile nicely at the little old ladies whom will look over it no doubt, before I get in my road registered car and jam it around in circles until I get bored.

    It really isn't that difficult at all.

    and If I can get myself organised..

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	if-bowie-can-do-it-you-can-do-it.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	44.9 KB 
ID:	101886
    Good stuff Bowie, it will also let you compete in Motorkhanas and also Kanacross.

    Have fun
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1995 Renault Laguna V6
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

  24. #874
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    oh yes indeed!

    Come on 2018!

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  25. #875
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Also, had a chance to drive the thing this morning after adjusting the tappets. It seems like apart from just generally running smoother, I've gained an extra 700rpm at the top

    She was pulling up to 5800rpm, (admittedly slowly), but it was gaining in engine speed consistently from 4000rpm whilst cutting via traffic on the M4 this morning. It was only at just under 6000rpm that she started to hesitate like a teenager getting out of bed on a Thursday.

    General maintenance is like, a good thing.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

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