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Thread: My R12 POS Arrived!

  1. #801
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    https://youtu.be/zD289QZvF_8

    Quick drive, I forgot the rear taillight a are not enclosed haha. Camera toward the boot whilst I touch the brake.

    The rattles are amazing

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    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  2. #802
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Just doing a sly engine swap before lunch.


    59 Floride and JohnW like this.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  3. #803
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    Hope you've added 4WD..... Looks very neat.
    JohnW

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  4. #804
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    But back to proper work, got the floor fixed!

    So what happened? the plate with the captive nuts at some point in it's life had come free of it's welds to the underside of the car, a prior well meaning bowie in a past life simply pop riveted them back to the floor. It was from those points that the cracks started and spread.

    My R12 POS Arrived!-cracked.jpg

    Compulsory photo of the adults doing the work.
    My R12 POS Arrived!-adult-supervision.jpg

    Compulsory image of metal silly string hanging out the bottom.
    My R12 POS Arrived!-string.jpg


    And here it is glued back together!
    My R12 POS Arrived!-fxed.jpg

    Yaaaaaay.

    Recommendation was to use these larger flat washes under the rail to assist in sharing the load out on those points. They didn't like the idea of the rail sitting bare on it. They thought about tacing those washers into position but as they are thicker then the sheet metal it was doubtful it could be done without putting more holes in the 'lil 12.

    Now the rust at the front is a little annoying. The hole is directly above the chassis rail to make welding difficult. The material around looks crap, it "should" be a new floor at same time.. for the moment rust converter, fiber glass, carpet.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  5. #805
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Well the oil temp and water temp dash lights work.

    I was just fixing the idle and checking the timing, (turns out the vac advance is broke, might as well hurry up and find me some megajolt fun times) and the level in the bottle is rising, and rising, and rising. It hadn't stumbled and I start to hear a gurgle in the base of the bottle and the penny drops. The thermo fan didn't kick in!

    Rushing around to kill it it is now nearly to the point where it's trying to bubble via the top of the bottle. TIme for a fluid change anyway.

    Good points to take out of this I don't have any leaks anywhere And the braze I did months ago held well! Ghetto pressure test indeed..

    Touching the fuse on the fan +ive it starts, looks just to be loose, will check it in the morning.

    Good pick up Dan.
    Last edited by bowie; 15th November 2017 at 09:19 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  6. #806
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Dan, get your arse to Altronics and get yourself a can of Deoxit D5. It's expensive as poison but it will clean all the contacts in situ.

    With the vacuum advance capsule I would suggest you check the dizzy and let us know what it is.

    Didn't I send you a dizzy? The capsule should be good on that, and if the dizzy is the same you can just plonk it in (or check if you could swap capsules).

    If you give us the numbers, I'll have another dig through the pile see if I have another one with a good capsule.

    Failing all that, there's a place in Qld with VW beetle bits. They stock capsules and I have used them in the past. It is very likely that if you have a Bosch dizzy, they'll have a capsule for it. Not sure what would fit a Ducellier dizzy.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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  7. #807
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    The Bosch distributor (if fitted) was common to other Australian built cars of the era (Chrysler Gallant, etc.).
    The vacuum advance modules would be the same.
    If it's a Ducellier then you'll probably have to look overseas but you can replace the Ducellier dizzy with a Bosch.
    Yours being a very early car might be Ducellier.

    On the fan, put a switch in parallel with the thermostat and have the switch on or under the dash somewhere.
    A 10 minute job and you can over-ride the thermostat whenever you like, just remember to switch it off again.
    The fans only been there a few months hasn't it? The contacts shouldn't be dirty already after just a few months.

    Cheers
    RTT
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  8. #808
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    No they shouldn't be. It feels like a crappy fuse housing to be honest, or the fuse might have broke just enough to be intermittent.

    The dizzy is a Ducellier, and you did send me a Bosch one Schlitzaugen. I have toys to play with true.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  9. #809
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    No they shouldn't be. It feels like a crappy fuse housing to be honest, or the fuse might have broke just enough to be intermittent.
    When I bought my Davies Craig thermo fan kit for my first R12 many years ago, it was the fuse supplied with the kit that was the cheapest and crappiest made component of the kit and the first part to fail. All I did was replace it with a better quality fuse holder.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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  10. #810
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    The other crappy part of the DC fan kit is that wedge system, thats lets the temperature switch capillary wend its way into the top hose.

    The weight of the sensing bulb tends to draw the capillary towards the edge of the radiator hose spigot, resulting in a snap off.

    I fitted a Holden temperature thermistor in the bottom tank and used a Silicon Chip "voltage switch" to operate the fan. This allowed accurate setting of the fan on and off temperatures.

    Use a 1k pull up resistor on the sensor to 12v+.

    https://www.jaycar.com.au/threshold-...h-kit/p/KC5528
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  11. #811
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    There is so much good advice floating around this place.

    Thank you all

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  12. #812
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Well bushes are back for the lower control arm

    Jim Hunters Suspension
    22/47 Third Avenue
    Blacktown, NSW
    9676 1544

    My R12 POS Arrived!-img_20171118_113311123.jpg

    They matched up something close in the Nolathane cattledog, and shortened them by the looks of things (I gave them a bush and the control arm). They have a protruding lip around the outside that will sit 1~2mm out from the control arm, Thinking about the play next to those mounting tabs it shouldn't be an issue, if it is I'll sand them down.

    The overall length of the Rod / Bush after being shaved is as follows* (measured roughly with my favorite tape measure)

    ROD,
    Length = 47mm
    Interal ID = 16mm
    External ID = 21mm

    BUSH,
    Length = 46mm
    Internal ID = 22mm
    External ID = 34mm


    The Nolathane part number 45190, indicates it's a lower control arm bush from a Nissan Pulsar N16

    Hope this may help a future Bowie at some point.
    Last edited by bowie; 18th November 2017 at 01:01 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  13. #813
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Oh, whilst I have you here,

    Does anyone have the measurement from the mounting point on the top control arm, to the spring seat on the chassis?

    Crazy mechanic at work has a bet going that rear WRX coil-overs would be pretty close.. (they have a similar mounting style)
    Last edited by bowie; 18th November 2017 at 01:11 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  14. #814
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    It's ok Bowie, I have the measurement here for you.

    R12
    Compressed = 370mm
    Extended = 440mm

    Oh the stud is M16x1.5


    Now what about those Subaru Rear Coil-overs.



    That looks awfully familiar. They are mounted just below the length of the drive shaft. In case you are wondering Evo's have them mounted much lower, more or less the lowest horizontal part of the hub.

    Stud required is M14x1.5 (has the bush build in as apposed to the screw on on for the r12. aaaaand I've given up trying to find a measurement online, I'll just to the bur sons and measure something.
    Last edited by bowie; 18th November 2017 at 09:13 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  15. #815
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Enough WRX dreaming.

    Fixed the issue with the thermo fan fuse. There was moisture in the fuse case, and a chalk farm which shorted out the terminal

    Waterproof fuse holder to the rescue, now it's much better.

    And since all that fluid boiled last time, dumped the coolant and re-bled. At least I felt better knowing it was fresh. Oil will be another afternoon.

    Spent a while dialling in the idle also, is nice. Speaking of nice, went and got a valve spring compressor for that head I have, really in pretty good shape. Lots of carbon to sand away but that is going to be part of the fun,

    My R12 POS Arrived!-img_20171120_170409785.jpg

    Ignorantly, I assumed exhaust valves would be larger then inlet valves. Does the volume of air / fuel increase dramatically after the spark event? Wouldn't a larger exhaust valve assist in getting it all out? More googling for me.

    Whilst this head is 1/2 dissembled (don't worry, pliers and screw driver was for another gig) I'm having a spot of trouble with some of the collets. In some cases I can spin the valve by hand freely but with the style of spring compressor I have (attaches to the spring, pulls it up toward the collet) I can't seperate the collets from the grooves in the valve. Any words of wisdom to help tap em out before I just cut the head of the valve with a dremmel?

    All the valves are pretty tired looking. Lots of pitting on the face that seals with the head, some have given up being round and are instead intimidating picaso ovals.

    My R12 POS Arrived!-img_20171120_153549904_hdr.jpg

    Are the collets re-usable? providing they aren't pitted / worn on their mounting face. Don't suppose they are $$ to chase either way.

    Finally what good would a day be without some spray cans. TADAAA.

    My R12 POS Arrived!-img_20171120_184633920.jpg

    Look I'm just going for the "it's better the bare metal and rusting again" approach. The carpet will go back on so no one shall ever know so Shhhh already. Perhaps I'll leave a dick-but for the future archaeologist..

    I'm worried about the fire-wall however, just near the push rod for the clutch arm. The material changes from metal to.. err.. something that depresses with the weight of my finger. It is along the line where internal material changes, it's like a rendered fibreglass with some kind of factory looking sealer used along the seam...

    Simon.. how where these things put together? :S

    But in better news, $320 banana's later Colliers is organising me the lower ball joints, and the wheel bearing kits I need for those arms / hubs, so I'm one step closer to getting those vented Disc's on the ol' gal.

    The callipers still need attention, and lines for everything, oh and hard lines I suppose. Better look at that Master Cylinder and Booster to for that matter.

    Much more reading to do!

    OH! I was this close to painting the wheels black. Thanks for talking me out of it everyone
    Last edited by bowie; 20th November 2017 at 10:53 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  16. #816
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    What clutch push rod?! The clutch cable is connected directly to the pedal, and it has a thingie to stop the outer sheath at the firewall (clips from inside the engine bay). That's it.

    Are you sure that's not the brake you're looking at, dunderhead?

    Use POR15 paint (brush). You can paint it directly on the rust (not flaky rust, but whatever you can not clean out). Clean major rust with wire brush/etc, then marine clean, then paint. Solid. The paint reacts with whatever rust you have left and bonds the water present so it becomes non-reactive hence any further rusting activity is stopped.

    Valve collets are stuck because they have bitten into the valve stem with the collar pushing them up for so long. After winding your valve spring compressor thingie, put the head on a flat soft surface (timber is good) and tap gently on the top of the compressor (I assume it is a cheap t-handle jobbie) with something with a bit of weight (not a sledge, bozo) to push down on the collar and break the bond with the collets. It will dislodge the collar from the collets, but the collets might remain stuck on the valve stem. Again, some gentle tapping directly on the collets with a screwdriver tip or similar will break the bond eventually. My guess is by now the valve stems have a nice little burr around the groove where the collets lock so they'll be useless (the groove has lost its profile, so positive collet lock is no longer possible). Keep the collets though, they're tough and can be reused (inspect, don't take it from an internet forum).
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 20th November 2017 at 09:48 PM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  17. #817
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Yep. that's what happened. Liberal with the rust converter (after flattening the battery a couple of times with the wire wheel)

    Re push rod, I'm smoking the wacky tabacy :S Of course what I meant was Handbrake / dash support.

    Have a look here. This grey material up around the dash, the other 12 I had apart didn't have that texture here. Prior repair?.

    If you look from the support bar across to the right you can sea where it's crap. It is here where I dare not kick...

    My R12 POS Arrived!-img_20171120_201143210.jpg

    My R12 POS Arrived!-img_20171120_201132608.jpg

    I should have metal there right I've been avoiding scratching at in case it really is bad. ..
    Last edited by bowie; 20th November 2017 at 09:40 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  18. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    I should have metal there right.
    It looks like the normal seam sealer and sound deadener treatment to me.
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  19. #819
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post

    Re push rod, I'm smoking the wacky tabacy :S Of course what I meant was Handbrake / dash support.

    Have a look here. This grey material up around the dash, the other 12 I had apart didn't have that texture here. Prior repair?.

    If you look from the support bar across to the right you can sea where it's crap. It is here where I dare not kick...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I should have metal there right I've been avoiding scratching at in case it really is bad. ..
    Bowie

    Do yourself a favour and get rid of that horrible umbrella handbrake creation and get yourself the one that fits between the seats, a far better setup.

    You will also be able to do hand brake turns.
    bowie likes this.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1995 Renault Laguna V6
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  20. #820
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Second Co. Get rid of that shit. Do you want my hand brake? Last call.

    The panel looks original, albeit there might be some rust around that area. One more reason to get rid of that contraption and patch up the floor.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  21. #821
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Thanks all, I'm comforted knowing it may be the original panel (even with rust) as apposed to a prior shitty repair.

    Schlitzaugen, Re handbrake.



    If it looks like no one is going to take the whole thing.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  22. #822
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Okay, I'll chuck it in. Check to see if you've got the bolt holes in the floor. If you don't, I would recommend you go for a Fuego handbrake lever because the 12 has the bad habit of enlarging the fulcrum holes and breaking the support plates. The Fuego system is much better and from faint memory it has the same leverage ratio/cable attachment system etc but it has a much more solid support. Basically a direct swap if you don't have any holes (well, apart from having to drill the holes).
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 20th November 2017 at 11:35 PM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  23. #823
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Ah good to know. And no holes, well, there is the opening for the center storage thing that sat between the seats. I wonder if that become the handbrake mount.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  24. #824
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Nah, there should be some M6 threaded holes in the floor (captive or welded nuts I imagine). Those would be much further back than those for the centre console. Somewhere between the front seats, about halfway between them.

    Let me know if you can't find them, because it is not worth it to go with the R12 handbrake then. Go for the Fuego like I said.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  25. #825
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post

    Ignorantly, I assumed exhaust valves would be larger then inlet valves. Does the volume of air / fuel increase dramatically after the spark event? Wouldn't a larger exhaust valve assist in getting it all out? More googling for me.
    The exhaust valve are smaller because when the piston gets fired downwards during the power stroke, the exhaust valve starts opening when the piston is still on its way down. At that time there is still plenty of pressure in the cylinder and the spent gasses exhaust easily, then when the piston moves up it ejects the remainder of the gasses, so you don't have a problem getting rid of it. On the other hand, when the piston moves down it sucks the fresh fuel/air mixture in without assistance (unless forced by a turbo or supercharger) and you need to get as much as possible in there to have some performance. The more you get in the more the hp. That is why the intake valve is bigger.

    Regards, Frans.
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