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  1. #26
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    Do I spy the rare Perspex headlight covers that were a popular option in Qld in the seventies when the roads were **** oops they haven't changed much at all?

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  2. #27
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Yes I believe they are. Well they were filled with crud the other day.

    Those of you that want rare bit's that I'm not going to appreciate, please speak up for fear that I forget and turf it. I was nearly going to paint them a light orange

    i should say with that there already is.

    -Drivers door wind shield (perspex arm rest protector thing)
    -Top windscreen visor (kinda like a dorky cap for your car!
    -Rear window cover, (tempted to keep it as it keeps the sun of the rear parcel shelf)
    -Tow bar + mounting plates + tow ball.

    For anyone that is looking for said bits, take advantage of me now whilst I don't appreciate how rare they are
    Last edited by bowie; 15th September 2015 at 07:25 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  3. #28
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    This is me up at Winton. Notice how flat it corners for a standard car.

    It's a standard R1173 Gordini on standard rims and road tyres but they use 26mm sway bars front n rear and thicker lower coil springs. Mine had Koni shockers.

    Yes you can make yours do this but instead of using R17 sway bars get some 26mm made up. Give them your old bars and say you want that in 26mm, no idea what they'd cost these days.

    First lesson in motorsport. There is no substitute for cubic dollars.

    Are the 17G sway bars 26 mm as well? Too lazy to drag mine out and check.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Are the 17G sway bars 26 mm as well? Too lazy to drag mine out and check.
    & are we ideally talking of 26 mm front & rear? I'd be inclined to have more roll stiffness at the rear but then I like a mobile tail.

    cheers! Peter

  5. #30
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Are the 17G sway bars 26 mm as well? Too lazy to drag mine out and check.
    I believe they are approx 17mm (quoting the mighty Dave from another thread)

    Renault 12 v Gordini
    I can supply R17 sway bars, I think there about 17mm thick, springs and shocks are up to you, Koni are best but hard to find, I doubt any K Mac stuff still exists.....

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  6. #31
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    & are we ideally talking of 26 mm front & rear? I'd be inclined to have more roll stiffness at the rear but then I like a mobile tail.

    cheers! Peter
    For a car that suffers from understeer, I am not sure you want a huge difference front-rear.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    For a car that suffers from understeer, I am not sure you want a huge difference front-rear.
    ???

    A good way to lessen understeer is to have relatively more of the roll stiffness (& thus weight transfer & thus grip degradation) at the rear. So a relatively stiffer rear bar compared to the front will lessen understeer & a relatively stiffer front bar will increase understeer. Playing with roll stiffeness differences via changes in spring, sway bar & damper rating in compression 'phase are major ways of adjusting handling balance.

    I always wondered with the R17 TL bars if the rear was a greater thickness increase than the front one by reference to an R12 or if the balance was the same.

    cheers! Peter
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  8. #33
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    ???

    A good way to lessen understeer is to have relatively more of the roll stiffness (& thus weight transfer & thus grip degradation) at the rear. So a relatively stiffer rear bar compared to the front will lessen understeer & a relatively stiffer front bar will increase understeer. Playing with roll stiffeness differences via changes in spring, sway bar & damper rating in compression 'phase are major ways of adjusting handling balance.

    I always wondered with the R17 TL bars if the rear was a greater thickness increase than the front one by reference to an R12 or if the balance was the same.

    cheers! Peter
    That's why I said you don't want a huge difference between the front and the rear sway bars.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  9. #34
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    What a great score, Bowie! I foresee frustration scouring the ebay and junkyards for parts, and empty pockets for a number of years to come. But the exhilaration while waiting at the stage start will be ample compensation.
    You got some really good advise, here is what I would add:
    First upgrade the brakes to dual circuit and the larger brakes. Take the time to recondition the units before installing. Buy the best pads you can afford. If EBC Greenstuff are available, they are perfect for your intended use; make sure you smoke them right off.
    Once the piggy bank recovers from the brakes upgrade, move on to the suspension. You got advise about sway bars etc, I would move further up to the top of the page: Take it ALL apart. First of all, you don't know what you have (previous owners may have made modifications), and what condition it is in. You may already have 17 bits on the car, and they may be shot, hence the poor handling. But the very first thing you must replace are the bushings; best suspension in the world won't work if they are worn.
    Be careful with wheels and tires. I would stay with 13's and use a nice low profile track day tire; this would be like having a short diff. And if you want to play in gravel 165's will work well.

    I would not do anything to the engine before dealing with brakes, tires and suspension. As for the G in the video, they have changed it into a go kart. Yes, it looks impressive, but it will only work like that on smooth roads. But a well set up gravel 12 will be almost as fast around corners and handle a lot more varied terrain.
    David Cavanagh and bowie like this.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Are the 17G sway bars 26 mm as well? Too lazy to drag mine out and check.
    I've seen 17G's with 20 or 21 mm something like that. 17TL is about 17 mm.
    David Cavanagh

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  11. #36
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Re the sway bars, got an email back from K-mac. Looks like one of you had bothered them previous Email below.

    Hi Daniel,

    Yes still have template for the Renault 12.

    Cannot recall re mount bushes if front bar has a 2 hole centre mount brackets – yes can supply these with matching 2 urethane D bushes and the 8 outer pivot bushes.

    Rear again no longer have the 4 mount bushes – if you supply dimension of out shape can make in urethane.

    Re bar diameters, 26mm for size of vehicle is extremely strong.

    Need caution here as on internet do see input re thicker is best.

    Would suggest MAXIMUM of 24 on front and 20 on rear.

    26mm will be no flex and vehicle picking inside wheel up and cornering on its outer edge – especially wet roads!!

    Bar price $245 each.

    Best regards,
    Kevin
    And there you go David. Your Gordini would be better with smaller sway bars. Since they are no good, how about you toss em over here and you fit yourself some from a 17.

    $245 each in case you missed it, (bushes included) and good to know they won't need a dummy bar to measure from. I also sent an email off to Whiteline, see what they come back with.
    Last edited by bowie; 16th September 2015 at 10:25 AM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  12. #37
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThanosK View Post
    What a great score, Bowie! I foresee frustration scouring the ebay and junkyards for parts, and empty pockets for a number of years to come. But the exhilaration while waiting at the stage start will be ample compensation.
    You got some really good advise, here is what I would add:
    First upgrade the brakes to dual circuit and the larger brakes. Take the time to recondition the units before installing. Buy the best pads you can afford. If EBC Greenstuff are available, they are perfect for your intended use; make sure you smoke them right off.
    Once the piggy bank recovers from the brakes upgrade, move on to the suspension. You got advise about sway bars etc, I would move further up to the top of the page: Take it ALL apart. First of all, you don't know what you have (previous owners may have made modifications), and what condition it is in. You may already have 17 bits on the car, and they may be shot, hence the poor handling. But the very first thing you must replace are the bushings; best suspension in the world won't work if they are worn.
    Be careful with wheels and tires. I would stay with 13's and use a nice low profile track day tire; this would be like having a short diff. And if you want to play in gravel 165's will work well.

    I would not do anything to the engine before dealing with brakes, tires and suspension. As for the G in the video, they have changed it into a go kart. Yes, it looks impressive, but it will only work like that on smooth roads. But a well set up gravel 12 will be almost as fast around corners and handle a lot more varied terrain.
    Yes Thanos. I agree It's been fun thus far. The neighbours are already talking..

    "Ah you've got yourself another French car.."
    "ah yes.. should be a fun little thing"
    "well hope it's not to noisy"
    "oh no, not at all........ yet"

    And absolutely. The engine will the last thing that goes in, well, I might want it in place when setting the suspension but yes! Some brakes and suspension please!

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Re the sway bars, got an email back from K-mac. Looks like one of you had bothered them previous Email below.



    And there you go David. Your Gordini would be better with smaller sway bars. Since they are no good, how about you toss em over here and you fit yourself some from a 17.

    $245 each in case you missed it, (bushes included) and good to know they won't need a dummy bar to measure from. I also sent an email off to Whiteline, see what they come back with.

    Someone got a photo of it with the back wheel about a foot off the ground. I'm not questioning Kmacs ability but I think I'll stick with Mr Gordini.
    David Cavanagh

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  14. #39
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    There was talk about steering wheels a while back. I prefere R19 (What, I just said something good about a 19) Check em out R19 pre air bag. look good, feel good. Work better on rear engined cars where the steering is lighter but still nice on a 12.
    David Cavanagh

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    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

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  15. #40
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    These looking ones?

    http://40.media.tumblr.com/bb6942f9d...5yvo1_1280.jpg

    Yeah they look all right. Also I'm getting the idea that 12/15/16/17/19/Fuego wheels are all interchangeable? Sure beats buying a SAAS and Boss from supercheap

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

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  16. #41
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  17. #42
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    Follow what Thanos says in Post #34. I just worry you are getting a bit too far ahead of yourself, shelling out virtually the value of the car on sway bars of unknown (apart from size) quantity. Whilst they may suit a 12G, I'd say they are way too much for basically a stock engine 12 (the 1300 motor weighs less than the 1565cc motor). I found even with a 17TL front bar, 17TL/12 Wagon rear bar and 175/70 x 13 tyres on 5.5" 17TS rims it still understeered more than desired. Reverting back to the stock 12 front bar made things a bit more neutral and adjustable.

    My thoughts would be to get it through a roadworthy and registered first, then the 15/17 front/rear brakes, wheels as suggested by COL above, play with the stock 15/17 sway bars, enter it in a few events to see how the car feels to you. Then decide where you want to go from there. Bigger motor, cubic dollar spend etc etc.......
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Are the 17G sway bars 26 mm as well? Too lazy to drag mine out and check.
    Yes they are around that size, 26mm Dia front 25mm Dia rear
    Regards Col

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  19. #44
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    Anti-roll bars:

    Stock Renault 12 sedan manual - Front 17mm, Rear 14mm
    Stock Renault 12 wagon & 12 Auto - Front 17mm, Rear 16mm

    Stock 15TS/17TL (most)- Front 21mm, Rear 16mm (early) , 20mm (late)

    Stock 17TS (R1317) - Front 21mm, Rear 20mm

    Stock 17 Gordini & 12 Gordini - Front 24mm, Rear 24.5mm

    Also note, don't take the 12 front springs too lightly. Uncoiled, they measure circa one metre in length, and if the incorrect tools are used when being worked on, they can be very dangerous.
    Kim Luck, bowie and keith mcelroy like this.
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    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup

  20. #45
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Just overcoming understeer
    Any day I wake up and don't have to go to work, is a good day
    Every day is a good day

  21. #46
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Bowie, nolathane suspension bushes are available off the shelf from Superflex (and I suspect others). I just did all of mine (except for the rear arms, because I am not sure it needs those). I even found a bush that with a light skim fit the tops of the front dampers. The only rubbers I kept original (out of laziness and can't be ****ed factor) are the front caster bar bushes. I am checking out the shelves when I find myself near the shops though.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  22. #47
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Just so we can keep track of these dam things, personal vin information as follows

    So all the R12 were built in Melbourne?

    Attachment 74406Attachment 74402Attachment 74404Attachment 74405

    Ah! and the 810-02, the proper big 1289cc and not the sneaky little 1250ish cc?


    Olive Green is the best green
    Attachment 74403
    Sage Grey was the colour of my early 16TS. Not really a bold 70's colour, was it!
    It's another lovely day! Again!

  23. #48
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Cheers all.

    Look yes I'm running around way ahead of myself, But the way I figure it. Goridni has done all the hard work for us as far as something to aim for. I'm just currently researching the required contacts so I can be organized for when I want to hit go on things. I work in operations and it's the curse of the job really. At work I'm stuck thinking 12-24m ahead most of the time, why should my Renault 12 plans be any different

    No I'm not about to throw 24mm bars into a unknown 12 with stock dampeners and springs,
    Yes It will be going to uncles Dave's for club rego,
    Yes I will get my finger out and over to some events, driving a slow car fast was the dam point in all this.
    Yes there probably honestly is more car in a clapped out 12 then I would no what to do with on a circuit / at an event.
    Yes I'm a little to excited and just need to calm down

    I took it out to the Ballet tonight, (don't worry I had a permit) and my partner hardly complained. That pretty much means she likes it I think.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThanosK View Post
    <snip>

    Be careful with wheels and tires. I would stay with 13's and use a nice low profile track day tire; this would be like having a short diff.
    <snip>
    fair enough but that would probably be 185/60 or 185/55 and the minimum rim width for those is 5"

    so new, or modified, wheels then.

    cheers! Peter

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    fair enough but that would probably be 185/60 or 185/55 and the minimum rim width for those is 5"

    so new, or modified, wheels then.

    cheers! Peter
    I was taking that for granted, 185/55/13 or 185/60/13 track day tires need a 5.5 inch rim. A little more offset would be good also, a wider track is always helpful.
    Last edited by ThanosK; 17th September 2015 at 04:36 AM.

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