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Thread: My R12 POS Arrived!

  1. #376
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    David, Yes will do. With Ian the 3 of us are nearly a convoy

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    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Old 15/17 brakes and gearbox bits Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  2. #377
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Well the rears where rubbing with the cool fat rubber, I went and got myself a tool to sort it out, now to get the car back...

    I lent it to my mate (whom I purchased it off 2~ yrs ago) at the start of the week and now he has stopped replying to my txt's, I assume he's having fun

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Old 15/17 brakes and gearbox bits Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  3. #378
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    Looking good Bowie, hadn't seen this thread for a while! I want another one.
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  4. #379
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    the 3x150 PCD stud pattern strikes again! The face on the tool is not even large enough to seat over the studs, I.e I won't just be able to drill it to suite. I'm going to have to make an adapter to mount the neat guard crushing tool.

    But I might try a rolling pin first however

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Old 15/17 brakes and gearbox bits Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  5. #380
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    Could the tool be bolted to an offcut of structural plywood, the ply then bolted to the studs on the hub? Or does the face of the tool still interfere with the suds?
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  6. #381
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Yep that's how I'd go about it actually. A near enough round bit of wood say 15mm - 20mm thick, One could counter sink the bolt heads by 10mm on the tool side to ensure the near enough round bit of wood, would sit flush against the hub.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Old 15/17 brakes and gearbox bits Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  7. #382
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    Like to see a photo of the tool.

  8. #383
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Honestly... I'm probably going to end up using a rolling pin. Looking at it properly.. I was a Muppet spending money on this thing.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Old 15/17 brakes and gearbox bits Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  9. #384
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Put a set of old tyres on the back and drive around a shopping centre car park a few times.
    (If you can get some slightly wider than you need would be best)
    After you go over enough speed bumps the tyres will fold back the lip for you.
    When you're finished, put the good tyres back on.
    "I cannot help but notice that there is no problem between us that cannot be solved by your departure."

  10. #385
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Suppose I could just take the suspension out and do a few hard laps of it on the bump stops too

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Old 15/17 brakes and gearbox bits Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Suppose I could just take the suspension out and do a few hard laps of it on the bump stops too
    Yes, that would work but taking the springs out is much bigger job than just bolting on some wider tyres and cruising the speed-bumps in the shopping centres.
    I don't know about Sydney or Melbourne but the shopping centres here seem to have a speed bump every 20 metres or so a few laps would probably do the job.
    "I cannot help but notice that there is no problem between us that cannot be solved by your departure."

  12. #387
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    Well that went well.

    My R12 POS Arrived!-wp_20170324_19_33_09_pro.jpg

    Ouuuucccch!

    Jack under beam, raise at as much as you can, rolling pin up under it and the combo of the soft tyre wall and the soft suspension means rolling it back and forward over the top 35 degrees (really only where it rubbing it seems) is a real pain in the arse!

    Still, rolled them up as much as I could whilst still being able to move my arms... Speed Bump Test...

    AH FFFFFFFSSFFSFSFSFS

    Crr Crrr it went on the way up and the way down. More rolling for me.

    I then went to find some hills and long sweeping corners, that made it crrr crrr last time too, and, well i think it's a little better. So it mighty be ok. A more tougher test on the way back from work tomorrow me thinks.

    You know a load of rear camber would probably fix the scrubbing too.. I did notice under compression it added a few degrees too. Does simply lowering these things add a few degrees of negative camber too?

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Old 15/17 brakes and gearbox bits Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    I did notice under compression it added a few degrees too. Does simply lowering these things add a few degrees of negative camber too?
    No. It is a simple straight beam with no independent articulation across the axle. So if it goes negative on one side, it is positive on the other side.

    The specs are zero degrees to zero 30 minutes positive camber. with 0 - 1.5mm toe out.
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  14. #389
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    #slaps head. Yeah I should have thought about that for 1/2 a second.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Old 15/17 brakes and gearbox bits Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  15. #390
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    My early 12 has that single barrel Solex on it. I note it feels as if it is rich under heaps of throttle and perfect with normal driving 3/4~ish throttle, Those Webber 32/36's of the Virage and S2 12's, make much a difference? And are the manifolds the same, could I just swap the Solex over for the Webber?

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Old 15/17 brakes and gearbox bits Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  16. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    could I just swap the Solex over for the Webber?
    No, the Weber 32DIR of the later 12TS type motors won’t just bolt onto the Solex manifold.

    You need the 12TS / 810-05/06 / 847-05/06 inlet and exhaust manifolds, as well as the rocker cover and associated linkages to the carby, accelerator cable, and for good measure, the later type accelerator pedal, as well as the various breather hoses and aircleaner and intake trunking to fit the Weber carby to your car.

    Although your car is a proper “big bore” 810-02, it still has (from the factory) 8.5:1 compression instead of the Weberised 12TS 9.5:1.

    Overall, I’d say use what you have for the moment, then work out where you want to go. Either 1.3/1.4 Sierra, Clio or 15/17 powerplant.
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  17. #392
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Thank you Simon. Yes no point spending all that for the sake of not much.

    Cheers.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Old 15/17 brakes and gearbox bits Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  18. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Frans, maybe as soon as 1st April! Reno club here are piggybacking on to a day at Sandown.

    I have to count my loose change. The rears are pretty crap.

    Whoops.
    Attachment 94362

    Oh, compulsory photo on top of a hill
    Attachment 94361
    Out of curiosity, what tyres are you running on this & what pressures?

    cheers! Peter

  19. #394
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    Out of curiosity, what tyres are you running on this & what pressures?

    cheers! Peter
    Round black ones.
    Regards Col

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  20. #395
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Not completely incorrect.

    They are 205/60/13's running the maxim psi the sidewall says it's comfortable with (35psi) and they still feel soft. They are never-hear-of-them-before Nankang EX-601's (rated 87H) which I can still get in this silly size from any crappy local and not crappy and local tyre shops.

    The next rubber it will have is Toyo R888's because a) make 'em in that size, b) sounds like fun

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Old 15/17 brakes and gearbox bits Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  21. #396
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    hmm!
    205/60 seems over large for handling sweetness on an R12 & having the same size & the same pressures front & rear seems oddly chosen.

    You say:

    'Speaking of corner entry, these things feel super weird. With a trailing throttle it runs wide, give it some right foot and it tucks in and tightens up! It's a wonderful feeling to be able to steer it with a throttle. It behaves unlike any FWD car I've really ever driven. Being cautious I was entering with hardly any throttle and getting heaps of under steer and I thought, "yeah ok, old FWD expected that" but mash the accelerator and it "squats" and you feel the rear pushing you through the corner like it's RWD. It's so rewarding. It's encouraging!

    FKN unreal!

    This I suppose is all that passive rear steering you all crap on about. It exists. I have seen the light!'

    This sounds very unlike an R12. The passive rear steering you mention is, as I understand it, simply that as the rear suspension rolls it moves into toe-out a bit, so one gets some roll-oversteer effect to counter the natural understeer. So, an R12's not as ponderously understeery as many FWD beasties.

    Yet they still have classic power-on understeer & lift-off oversteer behaviour. That makes them throttle adjustable in the normal way & such desirable adjustability is able to be enhanced by larger front tyres & smaller rears, relatively stiffer rear roll resistance (hence the desirability of R17 anti roll bars which are not just stiffer overall than R12 ones but relatively stiffer at the rear) or higher front pressures than rear pressures. Or some combination of the above. I did all three with the two 1.4 Virage wagons I had over 20 years.

    I can't work out why yours is behaving so oddly. Still, you like it, so: end of story.

    The Hankook Ex-601 is an ancient type & I am astonished that it was available new.

    You don't have a lot of choice in 13" as you know but be warned that although track-day style tyres can be quite grippy in merely slick conditions, the R888 is just about the poorest of the breed in the wet. Not that you can do much about getting something better in 13". However, you might consider Kumho's V700 if you are set on 205/60.

    cheers! Peter

  22. #397
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Hmmm perhaps I'll put the skinny wheels back on and see if changes the handling.

    Yes those Nankangs's where available at Beaurepaires Doncaster, He rang someone so they are in a shop somewhere available to him.

    Thank you re the Kumho's. And in regards to weird trye size, a bit of research suggested those Toyo's or Yokohama A048's were available in 205/60. Having said that, I haven't really measured these wheels yet. I suppose 190's maybe even 175's would fit a 6" rim. If it is 6" and not 6.23" or 5.5". Future me to worry about.

    And speaking of the handling, a great deal of toe out could be what I'm feeling yes. My daily drive is a Volvo S40 T4 with bigger sway bars, and king springs (all from previous owner) and this handles very naturally. There is practically no steering from the throttle which makes it kinda boring honestly. So perhaps coming from that extreme I'm noticing it as reported previous.

    I've been over your posts re tyres, pressures a few times, and decided I'd re visit when and if the suspension is fresh, aka a few fresher bushing are in it.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Old 15/17 brakes and gearbox bits Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  23. #398
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    Yep. If you are going to Griffith for the 4CV muster (we're quite inclusive of car types then we could yarn there.

    Enjoy! Peter

  24. #399
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    Speaking of R12's. What have you lot been doing for Air filters? I see Uniflow still make a re-usable cartridge I can fit in the original housing. I spent some time in Super-Bahn with a friendly chap (he fangs around in a mini) and we opened all the boxes we could to find something similar or that something we could cut, but no dice.

    So Uniflow it is?

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Old 15/17 brakes and gearbox bits Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  25. #400
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Speaking of R12's. What have you lot been doing for Air filters? I see Uniflow still make a re-usable cartridge I can fit in the original housing. I spent some time in Super-Bahn with a friendly chap (he fangs around in a mini) and we opened all the boxes we could to find something similar or that something we could cut, but no dice.

    So Uniflow it is?
    I think if you send a sample filter to Uniflow they will make you a re-usable foam filter of the same dimensions.

    Unifilter Australia Foam Air Filters for Economy and Performance

    I think Uniflow was the company I used to have filters made up for various motor bikes that I have had.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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